History Channel - 'Cars That Made America'

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: History Channel - 'Cars That Made America'
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 12:24 am:

If you haven't heard - The History Channel has the 1st of their 3-episode series of 'Cars that made America' beginning this Sunday evening. Two hour episodes start at 7 PM central time, and I believe they'll follow with the others on Monday & Tuesday. Check your listings and set your recorder?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Goddard on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 09:33 am:

Marv.
is it this sunday the 13th?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 11:54 am:

Correct. Sunday, August 13th, 7 PM/Central. Episodes identified to include Henry Ford, Walter Chrysler, and even 'Mr. Chebbie'....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Goddard on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 12:10 pm:

Awesome
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 12:03 am:

Just to 'refresh' in case someone isn't already aware.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 10:47 am:

Haven't heard commercials for this show, but will search for it tonight.
Thanks for the heads up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 11:07 am:

Here on the West Coast Episode 1 airs tonight (Sunday) at 8:00 PM and again Monday at 6:00 PM. Episode 2 airs at 8:00 PM Monday. Episode 2 airs again at 12:03 AM and at 6:00 PM Tuesday. Episode 3 airs at 8:00 Tuesday. I imagine Episode 3 airs once or twice more, but I didn't look that far ahead.

As far as I can tell there are just 3 episodes. Apparently it airs at different local times in the various time zones. Check your local listings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 01:25 pm:

'Kinda figgured' the time zones would have different times. Looking forward!
Thanks Robert & Henry!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 05:06 pm:

In the Central Time Zone that 1st episode is on the History Channel for DISH customers (channel 120) tonight at 7 pm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 05:31 pm:

Thanks for sharing and 'refreshing' Marv or I would not have seen or know about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 05:48 pm:

Thanks for posting this. I'm heading to my daughter's for dinner this evening, but the episode will be recorded for me to watch when I get home.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 08:35 pm:

Oh, how I love continuing education..a half hour into this documentary I learned that Henry introduced the 1930 Model A in 1927 and the Dodge brothers helped Henry introduce the Model T in 1908 and represented it as a 1915 touring with Houk wire wheels !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 08:48 pm:

Well, George gave it all away. No reason to watch it now!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By art ebeling on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 08:50 pm:

The show started with Ford unveiling the Model A in 1927 with a 1931 Slant Windshield Model A on display.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Strickling on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 09:02 pm:

They definitely don't care if they have the correct cars for the year they are discussing. They showed black cars and brass cars coming off the same assembly line on the same day.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 09:14 pm:

Black touring with a slanted windshield...
While the Dodge boys are helping design the T (I roll my eyes), they already have what looks like a Rochester carb from the 70's to the left on the work bench.
The Dodge boys passing a flask with Henry present? Really?
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By art ebeling on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 09:34 pm:

For an accurate history of Ford I recommend the book "I invented the modern age" by Richard Snow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darryl Bobzin on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 09:37 pm:

A great show if you have a third grade education, and don't know that half what is presented is incorrect.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Duquette Grand Forks, ND on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 10:22 pm:

For what its worth I was a little disappointed in the accuracy of the Model T cars for the time period and the dramatic acting stuff. I'm not sure the acting represented how folks interacted at that time. I prefer historical photos and commentary from researchers who have studied the era.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 10:39 pm:

Lots of film from other programs was used and they just changed the words!! It was really great to see the car that was to replace the model T before Henry came back,but a curved dash Olds???? I think Darryl hit it on the head!! Henry did not build Ford alone but other than the Dodge brothers Damn few of the actual people if any were mentioned!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Lake Oswego, OR on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 11:31 pm:

What would be great would be if Ken Burns had done the documentary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert G. Hester Jr., Riverview, FL on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 11:44 pm:

Kind of what we've come to expect from the history channel. :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 12:06 am:

Erick, I CAN imagine what this would look like IF Ken Burns and PBS would take this subject on.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 02:12 am:

Good grief, that was absolutely horrendous. -No mention at all of József Galamb, Spider Huff, James Couzens, Charles Sorensen, C. Harold Wills, John Wandersee, etc. -Along with the recklessly creative, counterfactual narrative were jarringly inaccurate visual reenactments interspersed with completely irrelevant historical film clips. -By comparison, the abysmal acting seemed almost passable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 06:55 am:

Last night some NASCAR drivers spoke on the show "Cars that made America" on the History channel. It's really to bad because the show was a total blunder, and made them look stupid for being a part of it. With all the books that have been written on Henry Ford and with the many knowledgeable people in different Ford clubs, it would have been fairly easy to come up with an accurate historical program. The easiest would have to at least come up with the correct year cars (which are readily available) in the time-line, not to mention the acting was terrible. They could have gotten students from a high school Drama Club that would have done better acting than that.
Any NASCAR driver that watched this finished product has to be embarrassed they were part of it. I can only imagine what the History channel will mess up if they ever do a program on NASCAR.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:02 am:

I agree with Bob Coiro ..... disappointing presentation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:19 am:

I lasted exactly 13 minutes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:29 am:

Duey, Don't you think it's about time the Dodge Bros got credit for that Rochester carburetor. It's not generally known that they designed and built that carburetor in the early 1900's. They wanted Ford to use that carburetor on the 03 Model A, but they just couldn't convince Henry that it was the perfect carburetor for it. Maybe it comes under the Heading of "FAKE HISTORY"!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:47 am:

A 08 with accessory wires and two spares on the running board...............and yes, agree with Bob.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 08:28 am:

My wife already band me from watching the news because I yell at the TV. Last night I thought she would band me from watch the History channel! lol

I suggest that this forum collaborate on what we agree on and put together our own documentary! lol lol lol.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 09:06 am:

I think Robert has a very good idea!! I found it strange that the success of Ford went from the model's A & B and mostly missed everything else to the model T. If not for the models N R S and K there might not have ever been a model T or even Ford? I wonder what Ford thinks of this line of bull?? If so much was to be made of Ford racing the Winton, why not use film of the Sweepstakes Racer?? When there are thousand's of cars available it could have not been that hard to use the right car for the story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The rate they are going I think their next offering will be a vdub beetle with a brass radiator!!!!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 09:14 am:

But I learned from the documentary last night that the Dodge brothers died from the flu epidemic sweeping the country in 1918 and Durant bought Chebby for only $10 K and that brand survives today...and there were 84 steps in the T assembly line. And I was entertained !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter -- Sparta, Missouri, USA on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 09:43 am:

These types of documentaries always seem to have the same problems. But this one was a little worse than most. The script is usually written by real historians who have done a good job with their research. The problems usually creep in during production and editing. In this show, it looks like the biggest problems were with the historical re-creations. How hard is it to get a Model T that is the same year as the scene you are filming? It's not that hard. The scenes also had all kinds of anachronistic props in the background. When they were talking about William Durant buying Buick, he was sitting at a desk looking at a photos of a 1909 Model T. It boggles my mind that they cannot hire someone to watch over the continuity of the history--especially when it is a history documentary for the HISTORY Channel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 09:59 am:

After watching this show because that's all it was, I wouldn't believe any thing else they produced. Ford has to be the easiest subject to research, with the inaccurate mess they made out of it their credibility is zero.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 10:01 am:

I don't think I lasted as long as Charlie B. Too bad. The promo sounded like it would worth watching.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 10:08 am:

Here at the Museum we call it the "soft" history channel. That's the problem when you have 20 somethings doing the research. A car is just a car ... a vintage film of an old car ... is just another film clip of an old car. I have worked on many movie and television projects. The directors have an idea of what they want for dramatic effect and don't really care about accuracy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 10:24 am:

I looked at the list of programs on my TV. It said which channel this program was on, but when I clicked on the channel it was something about Israel. A different program altogether. Unfortunately, the log does not say what the name of the channel is, just a channel number, which was wrong or the time was wrong.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 10:27 am:

Hey, guys . . . news flash for you . . .

It's TELEVISION!

Who said anything about reality or factual truth?

I have noticed for years that on Shark Week, they represent a 2010 Great White as a 2011 Great White and it clearly shows the third row of replacement teeth. I stopped watching after the first chum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 11:03 am:

If things like this can be explained as [it's television] what do you stand for?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darryl Bobzin on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 11:20 am:

I can deal with the poor acting. I can deal with the wrong year cars in scenes. I chalk them up to time / budget restraints. What I can't deal with is inaccurate historical facts. This is after all "The History Channel", not "What We Believe To Maybe Be The History Channel".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 11:34 am:

The "History Channel" is nothing more than another lame cable channel. Due to it's "title" most people infer this to mean that this channel is going to give nothing but factual information. This channel, like all other cable channels, exists for one purpose only- to sell advertising.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Doris, AZ on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 12:08 pm:

Yes, there were inaccuracies across the board with this one. You have got to look at it as entertainment value only with a few facts thrown in here and there. I liked the scene showing the specifications of the Model T engine as having 177 cubic inches or 2.7 liters. (should be 2.9 liters) Check out the wheels in this obviously computer generated scene.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis R on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 12:08 pm:

I used to watch the history channel when it first started, then it morphed into the war channel and now its programs are so bad, they should merge with comedy central. American "staged" Pickers seems to be their most popular / common show. I remember there was a show about these people that would dig up "junk" out of the ground and say it was worth tons of money. I can remember they dug up some Model A clutch and brake pedals, claimed they were horseless carriage era and worth in the hundreds of dollars. Can't remember if it was the history channel, though it seems like one of theirs. I don't get or miss the History Channel any more, I went to an antenna, NetFlix and a Roku box. (I love the Roku box!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Mettling - Dayton OH on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 01:15 pm:

I stopped watching History Channel back in 2003 when they switched to A&E reality style programming from documentaries. You can only get so much historical fact between Pawn Stars, Ancient Aliens, and Pickers. Total Garbage. I'll thrown on a Ken Burns any day instead and be happy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter -- Sparta, Missouri, USA on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 02:04 pm:

I can remember a time when MTV showed music videos, the TRAVEL CHANNEL actually had travel shows, you could get a weather report anytime of day from the WEATHER CHANNEL, and the HISTORY CHANNEL had shows about History! What the heck happened? A few decades ago, there were only four networks (if you include PBS). Then suddenly, we got 1,000 channels. I thought it was great in the early days but now it's just 1,000 channels of crap. The TV pie didn't get any bigger. It was divided up into more pieces, so that no one could make a profit. So there is nothing but "reality shows" on every channel. I would rather have ten good channels than 1,000 channels and nothing to watch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darryl Bobzin on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 02:09 pm:

That's it ! I'm getting in the way-back machine, and going back to 1909 !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop, San Diego on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 04:53 pm:

Sent an email to the History Channel (which forwarded it to the A+E Networks Support (History Channel Support) concerning most of the observations above. Like Robert P. above, my wife has now banned me from watching the History Channel :-)!
Curious about the reply I (we) might receive!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 06:17 pm:

Bob,

The obvious request - please share any response here for all of us to see!

Thanks!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:09 pm:

Kenneth,
I stand for the National Anthem. That's about it.

Looking forward to Park II this evening. Previews indicate that Henry Ford will use a Model T to land a man on the moon in 1924, Henry Bennet will win the Nobel Peace Prize for his handling of the Battle of the Overpass, and Ford will single handedly win WWII while Henry is building Greenfield Village.

It has to be true . . . it's on the History Channel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:29 pm:

I thought they did a decent job getting out the basic story about young inventors like Ford and others getting the auto industry up and running in the early years of the century.

After watching it for a while I got to thinking that the purists and perfectionists would have heart attacks an no telling what else because of the inaccuracies of year models and etc.
Turns out I was right.
At least I didn't throw my TV out the window.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:31 pm:

Nothing new here actually. Anyone remember the "man and the machine" TV movie back in the late 80's? The scene where Henry runs his first engine in the kitchen? The motor had a Briggs and Stratton flywheel on it. Cooling fins and all. It ran for the whole scene on a teaspoon of fuel too. Aside from that it was a pretty good flick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:58 pm:

I'll try again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 10:13 pm:

I got through much of it but somehow i missed Edsel getting 40 hp from the model A himself as i thought that was Harold Hicks? Somewhere i also missed the Ford V-8?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Derocher on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 10:26 pm:

I thought the same thing Bud, guess there weren't any cars made after the Model A , Now it's already WW2. A little better than the first show we thought, JD


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n LakeOzark,Missourah on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 01:25 am:

Enjoyed the show this evening . Only thing that I thought was off when discussing the T's brake system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 01:36 am:

I was only able to watch about 30 minutes of it, not to my liking at all. As someone else said, if Ken Burns made it, I would be glues to the TV.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 02:13 am:

I watched the show, and I may watch the rest of them, keeping in mind that the show was made for entertainment, not historical accuracy. There is a zero percent chance that Ken Burns or anyone else could produce a documentary about the early history of the American automobile industry, Ford in particular, that would pass muster here. There is so much collective knowledge about the subject with the cognoscenti here that the effort could never expect to get it completely right. Think about it. Some guys here probably know what they had for lunch on any certain day at Piquette Avenue and what the weather was like when the last T rolled out with two levers and two pedals. Fortunately for the History Channel and the like, the vast majority of their viewership don't give a rat's ass about the details of the cars themselves. They are not offended when a car in a scene from 1909 features demountable wheels. They want to see the human drama, and there is plenty available in that part of automotive history. Who screwed or got screwed by whom, who got rich or died poor, who died young or lived to see the fruits of their labor endure. It helps to have a famous name. Guys like Galamb and Huff aren't going to make the cut. I have to admit I was surprised that Henry Leland wasn't mentioned, but I missed some of the program.
In entertainment, you need a bad guy. Henry Ford filled the bill for the producers quite well. He gave them plenty to work with. Genius or not, he had issues. Much was made of his near totalitarian control of the company and his treatment of Edsel. Be that as it may, his DNA is still at Ford Motor Company. I have met Henry's great grandson. He is with Ford, or course. I have also met Ransom Olds' great grandson. I went to school with him. He drives a tractor for a living. When I met him, there was still active litigation over R.E. Olds' ouster from GM. David Buick, Olds, and the Chevrolet brothers left only their names to the history of the automobile. Dodge and Chrysler exist in name only also. The Fords are still in the business. That stands for something. I think the show gave the viewership what it wanted.
Forgive my ramblings. I am tired of watching TV.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 04:33 am:

I suppose the MTFCA could produce our own series of historical Model T videos for the History channel but 1/4 of those involved in the making of the film would have black eyes.
Vern


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 06:41 am:

I don't care so much that they are not using the right period car. The important thing is the historical aspect of it. One of my sisters called after watching it, and told me she didn't know the Dodge Bros designed the Model T. This is what the general public is getting from watching this, and if you see it on TV or in print it is so.

I'm also sick of the Ford-Edsel issue. Every time it's told, Ford becomes more of an ogre. The reality is Edsel lived a charmed life. You look at all that he was able to do, his lifestyle and the things he had including all the custom cars he had made for himself. I don't think there is anyone here that wouldn't have wanted to change places with him (except for his early death). So Henry and him didn't see eye to eye on some things. Henry's name was on the building. I don't think there's too many people that worked as hard as Henry did to develop the Ford Motor Company that would be willing to stand by and let someone else control it even if he was your son. It was also a different time period, and Henry gets judged by today standards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 06:53 am:

I watched it for 20 minutes. Being an old history teacher I just couldn't stomach the inaccuracies, so I turned it off and read a book instead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darryl Bobzin on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 08:35 am:

I watched for twenty minutes, then went out to the garage to work on the rear brake cables attached to the foot pedal on my T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 09:10 am:

Forgetting all the inaccuracies, has anyone else noticed that these programs seem to have 5 min of show, with the first two minutes repeating what was just shown before the break and then 5 min of commercials?

It's a looooooong two hours to get through.

My son asked the same question about what Ford built after the A and before the 39 coupe. Seems like Ford didn't build any cars during the '30's, but spent the decade trying to bust the unions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 09:24 am:

Why is it we keep and drive our old Fords?? Myself i like that part of history, but i do not like history as told by harry the pimp!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry H on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 09:35 am:

No mention of Harold Wills, James Couzens, or lots of others. As far as inaccuracies, i'm new to the hobby and you all are much better equipped to point them out. But I was a little puzzled by the scene where Ford stands at the factory door looking out over the sea of CGI T's. A brass car rolls out of the factory, then, a non-brass car. Oops.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 10:16 am:

Full of bloopers for sure, but generally decent in how things compared in the times. The only time i was roused to a here-here was the explanation of the Model T braking system...I was ready for a camera pan to show an equalizer system!

There is one truism that most T folks always miss. The "counsel" on the chassis design was strongly influenced by the Dodge brothers and their experiences. Most believe they were a dinky machine shop who managed to get extremely lucky by an association and stock holding in Ford Motor Company...truth is, they were supplying finished chassis to the #1 market leader in automobiles while Henry was still trying to get through his first Model A design. They too were not super proponents of large cars as they also knew as time went along that Olds decision to make robust larger cars is what set them on a near fatal spiral. Not being a wise guy...Henry is quoted as saying "history is bunk", when he in fact made sure his publicity dept (and his biographers) saw the automobile maturation through only Henry eyes!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 10:24 am:



(Message edited by George_nj on August 15, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 10:34 am:

What the cable companies are doing is filling a need and giving the public what it wants. -Once upon a time, The History Channel, Discovery Channel, A&E Channel, etc. put out respectable, informative documentaries of acceptable worth. -Then the Reality TV trend hit and the product of our American public school system went ga-ga over such cretinous shows as Jersey Shore, Keeping up with the Kardashians, The Bachelor/Bachelorette, etc.

These were extraordinarily inexpensive to produce and required writing chops insufficient to meet the standards of a final-season episode of Gilligan's Island. -The actors themselves (which could only be referred to as such through boundless imagination), were such thespianic luminaries as Snookie and Honey Boo-Boo—not exactly Pasadena Playhouse graduates. -This junk was what the financially critical 16-to-25 year-old, hat-backwards consumer demographic wanted and that's what they got.

I recently asked a straight-A, college age student possessed of a 4.0 grade-point average a very straightforward question: "Who did the United States fight during WWII?"
The hesitant answer was, "France?"
I countered with a hint: "Okay, what nation bombed Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7th, 1941?"
"England?"
When asked to give any information whatsoever on such Earth-shakers as Winston Churchill, FDR, Stalin or even Adolph Hitler, the response was a blank expression of bovine noncomprehension. -On the other hand, I've no doubt this young person, who maintains a running consultation with Twitter, could have told me what any of the Kardashian sisters had ordered for breakfast that very day.

Television producers are business people concerned primarily with the bottom line. -It makes no sense to make substantial financial investment on a superior product which would only be viewed by a small niche of intelligent consumers, when there are so many ignoramuses to whom cheaply made crap could be peddled for a far greater profit. -The overwhelming demand of the overwhelming majority has been met.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 10:36 am:

Henry Ford was certainly brilliant with things mechanical, no question! But, he was a seriously flawed man as well! I can't say that I would've wanted to change places with his son? I am a history buff and if I could go back and see the workings of this (or another car company) first hand, I'd jump at the chance! To be a loving son to him? Na, I'll pass. I grew with a controlling father and an older brother whom is even more than a control freak, not to mention a boss who was the same! Henry looks like he could have been a mean old man from all the pictures? Certainly, it was his way or the highway! Yes, his name on the building but, to hire thugs, sending inspectors to employees homes to see how they live their lives and give up their cultures and so on......
Henry got a lot of important historical events wrong but, in this day and age, one can look up history at the end of your finger tips! Today there is no excuse for that!
This is my take on things.

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 12:33 pm:

The story the program tells is Henry hated change! Henry made huge amounts of money because Ford did not change and retool all the time as some of the others did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 03:30 pm:

Erik Barrett, George Mills, and Bob Coiro (especially Bob) and a couple others got it right in my opinion! I'm learning to keep my mouth shut and just wait awhile and see what others think. That approach saves me a lot of writing, because I'm usually much to "wordy" anyway!

I'll just say that,....sure,....the program was full of inaccuracies and mistaken history, but the writers didn't design this show for guys like many of us, that know so much about Fords,....the cars, the people and the history. But what the writers of the show know is that we're just a few. And as those guys I named above pointed out, the vast majority (maybe hundreds of thousands) that didn't even know that a Model T was a Ford, not only are enjoying this series, but they're probably learning a bit about Fords, and automobile history as well.

Yeah, as usual, I'm getting too "wordy" again, but here's just one example of what I'm trying to say:

One of the many glaring errors that us "Ford guys" are so good at picking up on, was the very famous and historic introduction of the new Model A Ford! WE all know what the first 1928 Model A Ford looked like, and it sure wasn't the 1931 Fordor slant windshield sedan that appeared when the wraps were ceremoniously (sp?) pulled off, but the writers found that as a way to exaggerate to vast improvement in styling of the Model A, over the old-fashioned boxy and antiquated appearance of the old Model T! And THAT is because they knew that an actual 1928 Model A didn't look nearly as "NEW" in styling as a 1928 Model A, and the '31 slant window Fordor would have the most "impact" to most TV viewers that don't care, don't know, and will NEVER know or care about the difference between the first '28 Model A and the last '31 Model A!

Okay,....enough! As usual,....too "wordy". I just think that so far, it's been a good series that is entertaining and will actually teach quite a few folks some automotive history that would otherwise, never have known,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 03:42 pm:

So, the preview for tonights episode is that Clara Ford designs the Mustang, The UAW puts a man on the moon in a forklift, and Cord, Packard, Duesenberg, Studebaker, Nash, and Desoto never existed.

It's gotta be true~ It's the History channel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darryl Bobzin on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 04:14 pm:

I can't wait for the History Channel to do a series on WWII, so they can show the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 04:34 pm:

Tues night was worst than Monday night, nothing but wrong years, cars, a political message and pro union pitch. No mention of Cast Iron Charlie, Lincoln or Edsel working design for the 32 up cars. Garbage! As for the start of WW II, a scene about Ford doing the war effort but nothing about Ford single handily changing the way aircraft are built for the industry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 04:36 pm:

Tues night was worst than Monday night, nothing but wrong years, cars, a political message and pro union pitch. No mention of Cast Iron Charlie, Lincoln or Edsel working design for the 32 up cars. Garbage! As for the start of WW II, a scene about Ford doing the war effort but nothing about Ford single handily changing the way aircraft are built for the industry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 05:02 pm:

I'm dying to see if they even mention Ford assembling jeeps in WWII. Most people align Willys with the WWII jeep, but Ford assembled 280,000 of them in 5 different plants.

Maybe they'll show Clara designing the jeep. Edsel will look at the design and say, "I'll drink to that". And Henry will be moving the Edison laboratory from Menlo Park to Greenfield village.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Albert Lemon on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 05:18 pm:

Geeez Marv, you sure opened a can-a-worms !!! I enjoyed the feed backs on your post more than the inaccurate documentary. Intentional or not, you sure got people's dander up. LOL and for good reason, the accuracy of the documentary including the actors, was a JOKE !!! Yup, I watched it anyway, love history especially automotive history.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 05:29 pm:

Tradition, tradition, tradition! From its inception, the film business has always administered a severe beating to history. The folks who produce movies and TV have always been more Ned Buntline than Carl Sandburg. From Griffith's portrayal of the Klan riding to the rescue of beleaguered white womanhood to a character in Spielberg's acclaimed Lincoln speaking of the president's face being on a half dollar, the most preposterous misrepresentations have been dressed up in historical garb and trotted out as amusements for the masses. The history channel's transgression is in omitting the time honored disclaimer, "Based on a true story".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 05:30 pm:

I watched the first hour of the first episode.

I have spent my entire career in TV, film, radio and stage on both sides of the camera, microphone and stage.

I have rarely heard or seen anything so poorly written (and it starts with the writing), researched, directed, acted, edited or, filmed!!!!

A good writer or researcher can do a simple Google search and find tons of facts and historical photos, films or, stock footage. A simple phone call to THF, AACA, VMCCA, HCCA, DBC, etc. can verify the facts. Or simply hire the right, reputable, knowledgeable auto historian as a consultant. This is not labor intensive.

As a professional and auto historian, I found the program offensive and, frankly, jaw dropping in its presentation and inaccuracies.

That aside, it is reprehensible to present what the program did as fact(s) because the majority of the public -- primarily the younger set -- will accept what was presented as truth. That is an inexcusable, unforgivable disservice to the public and an assault to those of us who are knowledgeable.

Shame to the writer(s), director, researcher(s), editor and the History Channel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Fedullo, Milford MI on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 09:59 pm:

Anyone notice what appeared to be assembly line footage at minute 26 in episode 1? It sure looked like the horn was upside down to me. Am I missing something?

http://www.history.com/shows/the-cars-that-made-america/season-1/episode-1

Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 08:17 am:

The latest was even worse than the first two. How about the GM hotrod ride in a 52 Merc. I gave it up after the first hour.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 09:12 am:

Y'know, I would expect an historical mini-series to get nitpicked by the experts, but any rank amateur could see how this one was slap-dashed together with just about no concern for historical accuracy. -Why on earth would they have a high-ranking GM exec point to what is obviously a Mercury and call it a Chevy? - What—they couldn't find a 50's vintage Chevy to play the part? -Good grief.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Donahue on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 09:38 am:

I used to like the History Channel. Forced my self to watch the entire series. They could have done that bad a job of it in half the time. That's 6 hours of my life I'll never get back!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 10:22 am:

They're going to re broadcast them all again twice this Sunday. It would be a good way to confirm that your racing heart and foaming mouth were caused by the show and not something else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 10:36 am:

A major problem with this program is that it's written for car people. Those with only a utilitarian interest in cars would not be bothered with it. My wife (who would prefer her 80,000+ mile Chrysler minivan to an SJ Duesenberg) wouldn't have spent five minutes watching it. Car guys will notice the goofs and inaccuracies, of which there were many. My favorite was watching one of the Dodge brothers working on a Rochester Quadrajet carburetor; they tried to pass off a Mercury as a Chevrolet, and a full-sized Buick as a GTO.
Ken Burns would have done it right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 10:39 am:

Was Knudsen really made a 4 star general???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 10:48 am:

As bad as many of you found this program, I bet you still watched a number of the commercials, which is the real objective of the HC presentation. Even the upside down horn blooper mentioned by Joe came with an advert at the start of the clip. Drive careful, everyone, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 10:51 am:

n January 1942, Knudsen was commissioned a Lieutenant General in the U.S. Army, the only civilian ever to join the Army at such a high initial rank,[9] and appointed as Director of Production, Office of the Under Secretary of War. In this capacity, he worked as a consultant and a troubleshooter for the War Department.


I like the scene where he walked in with full dress uniform and stated, "Actually, it's General Knudsen now". Really? Thought it was Halloween.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 11:45 am:

Hmmmm, I was also wondering how the '56 Ford managed to show up at the introduction of the '49 Ford. I thought DeLoreans were the cars that did time travel.... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Steven Robbins.... Newton, Kansas on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 12:11 pm:

Absolutely pitiful!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 01:22 pm:

Thanks Mr. Brought. I did not know that ANYONE ever made rank that fast. I did turn my head sideways like a dog trying to understand a person when LTG Knudsen was always portrayed wearing enlisted hat brass. Guess the director knew as much about historical US military uniforms as he did about the series subject matter...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 04:21 pm:

I did not know that the torque tube spun on a Model T and w/o the wheels moving: Part I, 25 minutes 37 seconds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 08:34 am:

I did not watch the show. It appears from the above comments that the writers and producers are rewriting the history of the automobile. As for the comment about having Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) and people such as Ken Burns produce an accurate - in some eyes- view of the automobile in history was refreshing. I would assume if Ken Burns would have produced the "Culture and history of the automobile in America," it would be viewed as elitist. In an age when services such as PBS are being cut for economic and political reasons, some folks are disappointed that history is being revised.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 09:22 am:

A friend of mine watched it and when I talked to him yesterday his comments were along the lines of "I don't know cars and I saw tons of things wrong". So far I have watch 1 and 2 with about 1/4 of 3.

There was a time when a film could be made like Tora, tora, tora and be historically accurate. More accurate than a documenty or docudrama that is produced today on any of the networks. Why is it so hard to let history be history and not change it to suit ones own desires? Just look at the past week.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 09:40 am:

Probably not the correct way to word it but if you don't know history your doomed to repeat it!! What i find strange is when a 10 year old kid can take his smart phone out of his/her pocket and find out everything quickly,why must tv feed us oxen schizen,when we can easily find the truth?? Why must everything be geared to the dumbest bastard in the country??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 09:52 am:

I sat through the entire 1st show and really enjoyed it. At the end the phone rang and woke me up. It was my neighbor. He wanted to know what I thought of it. I told him I thought it was a wonderful show. Apparently he caught on to my BS. He immediately asked me how I could sleep through the entire show and not see a single scene of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 09:54 am:

I don't think it's "geared to the dumbest". I think what we saw is simply the product of laziness. It's much easier to just make things up than it is to actually get them right. This laziness is evident in talking about one car while showing another, showing the wrong year vehicle, the omission of so many people who should have been included, and so on.

The producers obviously don't care. As long as enough people watch it, regardless of content, it's a commercial success.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zachary Dillinger - Charlotte, MI on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 10:27 am:

I have it recorded to watch later but I'm not expecting much, especially after the abortion that was their Harley-Davidson program and the "Sons of Liberty" garbage about the beginnings of the Revolution.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 11:40 am:

Dang, I forgot about it and missed it. It looks like I didn't miss, much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 12:26 am:

The problem with historical shows with inaccuracies is that the majority of people watching will believe it and you have heck convincing them otherwise. My friend saw that show and came over here today and he knew everything about the Ford motor company. I just listened and said yeah ok. When people ask what year my car is, I could tell them any year pre WW2. Nobody would know, I've had people guess 1930s, and people that look at me like I'm lying when I say 1914. Same friend taped off an episode of counting cars to show me the woodgrain dash on a 39 Hudson convertible could. Only one in existence and an artist was called in at the factory to paint the woodgrain dash. He believed it. Most people have no clue about pre-war car interiors. Or post war too, I told him my 47 Hudson has a woodgrain dash too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 02:09 am:

:-) George J D, I'm not sure if your giving some of us hell or... :-)
Shoot Corey, most people have no clue about anything.
Like too many of us say about our past lives in our industry here locally about the believers. They drank the Kool Aid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Pergande, Essexville MI on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 02:46 am:

There seems to be a misconception of what TV is all about in today's market place. It is not about content, quality or accuracy. Today's programming is all about advertising. The objective is to try and keep the viewers interest just long enough to get on to the next 5 minutes of commercials and the income it brings to the station. Those commercial breaks are now to about the maximum length the human mind can bare without loosing interest in the show they are watching. Have you noticed on the history channels return from a lengthy break they spend the first minute or two retelling you what you watched before the long break. That is because in the lengthy breaks you have already started to forget what you did watch before.

Advertising is what makes the world go round. It is everywhere. Surf the web. You are flooded on every site now with it. Even driving down the road advertising is thrown at you. The busier the road the more the advertising. Newspaper don't have articles now. It's all advertising. You even pay for with clothing. Ever buy a hat with some companies logo on it. The tricked you into promoting their business and paying for too.

I'm sure you noticed you can't get much local weather information on the Weather Channel anymore. If you just want to the temperature you won't get that and keep watching. You will move on. There's not chance the view will hang around to see the advertising. So, they now have programming that you might stay and watch for those commercial breaks. The history channel doesn't care if their shows are accurate or not. They just want you hang in there long enough to get you to watch the next 5 minutes of revenue the advertisers are paying them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 06:01 am:

Commercial breaks are a great time to go to the bathroom, make a quick phone call, send off some text, make a bite to eat, grab a beer, search the internet, check this forum, see what else is on tv, let the dogs out, clean the liter box, or mute and discuss with your armchair mate.
Commercials? Don't waste time watching them!

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eyssen - Abilene TX on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 01:39 pm:

Jack: I have threatened for years to put a stopwatch on a "news" program (on any program for that matter), and compare the amount of time spent on commercials as opposed to the "news" portion of the program. Most of the "news" I get from TV or the "newspapers" I have already received from the computer anyway. And yes: the retelling takes up valuable time without anybody having to manufacture something to add to the program.
As to commercials, am I the only person out there who has never purchased anything because some actor or sports person recommended same? To me they are a waste of a companies money, but I guess they must work for some people.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 01:55 pm:

I record shows I want to watch and then can FF thru the lengthy commercials. Also keeps me from missing something I wanted to watch. Works for me


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 03:46 pm:

I haven't watched TV for at least ten years. My wife paid for Dish for years and we never watched it. She was afraid to stop it because she might miss something. We put up an antenna just to be safe. We still don't watch it.

Apparently I haven't missed anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eyssen - Abilene TX on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 04:10 pm:

Gene: I once read about a recorder that would automatically stop on a commercial, and start up again on the program. Never did find out if that was true or only wishful thinking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Doris, AZ on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 05:20 pm:

DVR and fast forward through the commercials is the only way to fly for me. I find them torturous to watch. If this technology were not available or (god forbid) disabled in the future, I would simply mute the TV and do something else while the commercials air.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 06:51 pm:

I DVR everything I watch. -Then I can view the shows at my convenience, not the broadcaster's. -Just as importantly, I fast-forward through the all the commercials. -Life is too short to waste it on that amount of brainwashing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 07:06 pm:

History that's pretty much accurate is something that's missing in our educational system. Not just about cars but culture, politics. and a lot of other areas. Its been going on for a while and our younger folks don't realize it.
Not much can be done about it on this forum but piss and moan and have an endless thread about the woes of the History channel. After a while its gets pointless. Time to move on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F Stephens-Marcle on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 07:08 pm:

WOW ! I just read thru all these posts, I have never seen so many bad reviews, I have all 3 episodes on DVR, was really looking forward to binge watching them...I have the highest respect for most of the folks who post here, and so , I think I will just delete them all without even trying to watch them. I have enough misinformation floating around my feeble mind without cluttering it with obvious junk....to bad, had such great potential. Pre war cars are my only hobby...really bummed. Thanks for the heads up y'all. John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 07:16 pm:

An alternative point of view in favor of watching is so that you will know the arguments that people will come at you with. After all since they saw it it must be true.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 02:01 am:

So you folks did not know model A Fords could roll out with white wall tires and a screen in front of the radiator. Was that a quake or temp gage on the radiator cap?
So now a 1910 and 1918 T look the same?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 04:03 am:

John Stephens, go ahead and watch the series. There is really good historical footage to see, even if it is completely out of context or from the wrong time period. It is entertainment, as intended. If you want the facts they can be found here or other places but be advised there is always room for interpretation. I enjoyed what I saw despite the factual errors. I do believe the show could have been much better with just a little input from people who know what cars would be appropriate for any given year in the show. I think it would have been easy to find the right year cars and a real no brainer to find guys who know what what would be correct. Anyone who dares to advertise a part or car here a moment older than it is will suffer the wrath of the experts, particularly if it is earlier than one owned by the aggrieved expert. Get over it and see the show. Most people watching will learn something about the history of the American auto industry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 09:59 am:

I did settle down to watch a bit of the second part of the program. Cars like the actors who portrayed their creators do not age with time. The actor who had the part of Henry Ford looked the same at the beginning of the section as at his death. As with the Model T. My 1922 Coupe today looks the same as the 1922 Factory photograph. Goes to show that the automobile may well be ageless.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 10:49 am:

Now if you have children is this something you would want them to watch knowing all the incorrect information they will be getting?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Erfert on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 10:57 pm:

I love to read books that were produced during the period covered, no commercials or other distractions. I don't even have to adjust the antenna when I am reading and when I get tired I put a cardboard thing called a "bookmark" in so I can begin again where I left off. I must be old ......


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