I just about have the boat trailer come T-hauler done, except for working out the ramps. I'll put mount tie-down points and wheel stops on, onxebi see where it needs to sit for best weight distribution. Important on a single axle ..

Ooos... pics are likely not in order...

Those boards are going to get oily. Nice job! My trailer has "pockets" under the back of the trailer where ramps, made of angle iron, side in and out. I'll take some pictures and show how mine is made. It looks like you will have plenty of your load forward.

Dennis,

You certainly do quality work but I am concerned about the engineering of your trailer. I am no trailer expert but what I see is;

The main beam is not continuous and may be a "hinge point" where the tongue could collapse. The axle is (in my opinion) way too far back for any balance of a car with all the weight on the front of the trailer at a weak point. The "out riggers" are suspended from underneath instead of being on top...think of it this way; if you took a sledge hammer and beat them on the ends could they break off but on the other hand if they were on top could you take a sledge hammer and not break them off but maybe bend them?

I fear that if you have a car on this trailer it could either collapse in the front or the car can fall through the side boards with both the same result.

Again, I am not an engineer or a DOT inspector but think it might be wise to consult a trailer company for approval, as I see it you could have a catastrophic event with several points of collapse.

Be safe first, just my thoughts,

Tim Moore

Tim nailed it. Looks like a modified boat trailer. A boat strapped down on a trailer becomes part of the trailer. Nice work though. I'm thinking moving the toung back and plate the rear end of the tube to the frame and plating where the toung is bolted to the frame now. Easy to move the axles. You asked and that's just my 2 cents. Needs 2 inch ball. You'll get er done.

Dennis, I share some of Tim's concerns. I have never use a tandem axle trailer for T hauling, so have plenty of experience with single axle trailers, having built five of them from scratch.

Your axle assembly is too far back for a balanced load. I would expect that when setting your T on the trailer to get the position for a proper load distribution, you will need to shift the axles forward. On mine I start with the axle just 4" behind centre, and adjust from there.

I would use 2" x 1" heavy wall material, on edge, for the out riggers, and I would not drill them to bolt them on. The holes are an instant weak point.

The long drawbar will be a bonus, making backing the unit a much easier proposition. I trust those marks around it are cable ties or some such, rather than welds.

Your experience my vary.

Allan from down under.

Dennis, I had another look when I read Richard's post. He also raised concerns for me. If the drawbar is not one continuous piece, I would replace it. I would install it/make it long enough to extend 3' or 4' back from the point the side rails meet it and bolt it to a new cross member at the back. This will eliminate Tim's 'hinge point'.

Hope this helps, and makes things safe.

Allan from down under.

Definitely gonna have to move the axle forward. You want no more than 10% tongue weight, so for a typical 1200-1400# Model T, that'd be 140# tops.

I used a similar converted trailer (tandem) and towed a model A from FL to Ohio and a 59 Tbird back. I towed the cars backward on the trailer to reduce tongue weight but other than that there were no problems.

Richard, I agree with what you said about moving the main beam back for more support but what I would also do is drive another piece of square tube inside where it has been welded in at least 3 places, drill and plug weld the insert to locate and weld the end. As much as I like to spark and burn with a welder a double layer in this area of a continuous piece of stock is by far less likely to fracture than butt welded sections.

Yes the axle should be easy to move forward for balance but the outriggers should also be moved to the top to sit and not hang off the bottom and possibly break off.

Dennis, proceed with caution and make sure the finished trailer is safe and can support 2,000 lbs. As pictured I would not use it.

Regards,

Tim Moore

Well I've built four trailers to haul cars on. They all four worked out just fine.
I like the way Dennis built his trailer but something better has to be done where the hitch pole meets the main rails.
I would get a longer pole, one that would reach the cross member just in front of the axle. Better yet, one that would reach the axle.
An empty trailer like that needs about 80 lbs. of weight on the hitch ball. Loaded with a light car like a T or a Corolla or a model A you need 200 lbs. on the hitch. Not over 300.
Anything less will allow the trailer to sway back and fourth, right to left.
Putting the boards under the frame gets the load 4 to 6 inches lower. I like that.
I don't like the u bolts going through the cross members but you could weld a strap iron on each side of the bolt holes. I think they will load just fine the way they are.

Move the hitch pole back a foot and put another cross member immediately behind it.
The vertices holes in the cross pieces are not weakening them. If they were drilled horizontally that would be another story.
Also, with a T loaded on with a full tank of gas and another fifty pounds of stuff under the seat and laying in the car I wonder how much of a bump would you have to hit at 50 mph to make the axle slap the frame. I don't see much clearance above the axle.
I like the general layout of the trailer. For the kind of work I do I think it would be great.

Thanks all for the concern, and helpful hints!
Yes.. the current hitch pole is all one piece. .those are indeed plastic ties for wiring.

The horizontal bolt holes for the verticals shouldn't weaken them much, as the verticals land should be doing the bukj of the work.

I had thought if replacing the front one or two verticals with larger square stock as well. I could easily insert another square pipe inside the the hitch pole and anchor/weld it to them when I do.

I under slung the verticals to keep the loading 'bed as low as possible... both forloadi g and center of gravity.

Suggestions for loading ramps? I would want to keep as short as possible for load... but long enough for a graceful load. I haven't measured the bed height yet... but those are 15" rings, and the 2x10 deck material is setting on the axle frame made of 2" stick.

I was thinking of 2x10 min... probably 2"x12"... but 6'? 8'??

Dennis

My flatbed alum. trailer is 16 1/2" tall at the deck.

The alum. ramps are 11 3/4" wide x 6' long.

Easy grade and climb onto the deck, esp. when in Ruckstell and low pedal! Slow and low throttle so I don't ride over the front fixed chocks



Hauling on open trailer, the T can get dirty.....but easy to solve that by spying a high school car wash in a big shopping center, and have the T soap and shined on the trailer, all for a few $ donation! Plus the teenagers get a kick out of it too

Very good, Dan... that should be perfect. Thanks!
Yeah, I'm expecting it to get a bit dusty..... :-) but if I go fast enough.. it'll blow it all off, right??

I have a single axle trailer made for a model T that I used recently to take our '25 tudor to MT from AZ. I did not make this trailer but it was made from a boat trailer frame many years ago. I wish I could put brakes on it but that will take another plan. In the mean time it has served us well, I try not to go over 65 MPH when traveling and pull it with a 2001 Dodge Dakota.

Dennis, looks good. I expect you are planning to load the T backwards to keep the engine weight closer to the axles. Remember 10-15% TW (tongue weight) is ideal. Below that you can run into some serious(sway)handling issues, I like 12-14% TW.

Keep us up to date on the build, would love to see the T loaded on and feedback on how it rolls down the road.

Good Luck!

Yes... initial idea was to load backwards. No tiedown points yet, as I wanted to see what worked best, first. Looks like extending the tongue toward the rear, and stretching to the main supports is in order first, though ...

A Model T is pretty well balanced, so there's not much difference between loading backwards or forward. I put a roadster pickup on corner-weight (race car) scales, and there was only 12 more pounds on the front than the back.

If you are still wondering about a loading ramp, here is an idea. I'll get some pictures of mine today. Cheers

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200316067_200316067?utm_source=Em ail&utm_medium=081417_MegaSale&utm_campaign=eDeals&utm_content=P4&cm_lm=halsched@hotmail.com&STATE=CA&HOT_MEM_CODE=&MARKETCODE=&om_rid=AAXe8R&om_mid=_BZkZ7YB9e4 aYwL

Nice ramp... I have been looking for a metal stNd-alone like that on Craig's list, et,.. nut not finding one. Did it holding up Well? Not bending?

Harbor Freight has ramps, but their ratings haven't been good on them.

Dennis, while I admire your handiwork, that trailer was never designed to haul a car, even one as light as the T. Aside from the concerns addressed above I'm worried about the weight your axles are designed to handle, as well as what kind of braking system you will be using. Your trailer should always be capable of towing much more weight than it actually will. I've used smaller boat trailer frames to build a motorcycle trailer and one that hauls my John Deer lawn mower but anything more than that I've got to go with a unit specifically made for the purpose. Safety first.
Terry

Have to agree with Tim's concerns. IMHO- The way the tongue is attached need some serious help. It looks like it has 1 bolt going through the inside wall of the trailers outer tubes and through both of sides of the tongue tube. The tubes do not sit flat against each other, so your bolt is already stressed. The rear of the tongue tube is fastened by a u-bolt which is going be of little help in helping to control front to rear force, which means that the force is going to be mostly on 1 single bolt that is already trying be bend in a curve lengthwise. The trailer is going to flex in the tongue area and fatigue. It should be boxed in and welded. The axle is too far to the back, I would be concerned that the tail may want to "wag the dog" when going down the road.

I tried to send a picture of the trailer I have but had to adjust the size of the picture. My only thing beside the brakes (which would require a different axle) is light weight aluminum channel for the ramps and on the trailer. Hitch weight is 160 lb and I use 8ply rated truck tires.

Dennis,

At the very least - that boat trailer needs to have a single piece of substantial steel connecting the coupling mechanism back to the axle.

The construction looks to be thin box tubing fastened together with bolts.

Without welds - that allows flexing to occur.

The tongue is way too long.

Personally - I would never modify a boat trailer into a car hauling trailer - the liability is too great.

If it has a registration or title - it probably states it is a boat trailer - in the event of an accident you may find you have no insurance coverage ....


Freighter Jim

Dennis,
They guys here would have a cumulative of 1,000 years of knowledge. The foremost is safety.
Don't take their advice personally. But heed to their advice. You will have a better built trailer and more fun than you realize.

You're doing good work. Don't stop, just make the adjustments as noted.

Steve

Dennis,

I'm afraid these guys are right. Aside from the axle being too far back, the tongue is way too long and its attachment is not strong enough. It probably wouldn't be that much work to disconnect the tongue and slide it back into the trailer frame, making it only half as long, or even much less. Then you'd have to add some cross bracing to support the inner end of the tongue. I would also look to do some welding at that point.

Since it looks like the two cross members that the springs & axle are attached to are just u-bolted in place, would it be possible to loosen those u-bolts and slide the axle forward?

Yes Jerry, at al... that is indeed the plan with the tongue. I'll be lining up the T with the trailer and see how far back I can push the tongue. If the winch stuff gets in the way, then off it comes.

If it doesn't go back until at least the 1st... probably the 2nd front horizontal support, the I can weld a steel square channel inside the rear of the current tongue channel, to get to at least one or two supports... or the axle. I also plan on replacing at least the front horizontal with 2" x 2" angle.... probably the first two. That shoukd give the tongue and/or it's attention , plenty of contact for welding it down.

Yes.. one if the reasons I got this t raiker to start with, was the fact that I could re-position the axle , as needed. Shortening up the tongue-to-axle would help substantially in the back-up capabilities, too.

No... I posted here for input, not pats on the backs. :-)

Is this any better?



I should be able to get another sleeve of box steel to slide into the tongue, and extend to the axle frame... especially if the axle is moved forward.

The tongue and frame are of 3"x4" 1/4" steel. The tongue was a pitb to take apart... a 5" bolt went through the inside walls of the outer box channels, through the tongue channel. I suspect it was much easier to put together when done before bolting the support channels to the axle!!

Off to the steel store tomorrow!

Thanks, all!

I'd sure be worried about excessive tongue weight (among other things). Having towed a 12 foot trailer that was loaded too heavy toward the rear, and experiencing the result, I wouldn't pull a trailer capable of that much tongue weight unless the tow vehicle was a one ton dually or larger.

Exactly what I was thinking Terry, even a ton and a half. But it would have to have a real strong hitch on the truck to carry so much load.
The picture Dennis posted today looks like he is going in the right direction.
I'll be anxious to see pictures tomorrow or later in the week.

Trailer looks great Dennis. Here is a pic of the home made trailer that was built back in the day for the Speedster. It hauled a touring as well. Pulled it for the first time last weekend about 130 miles. no issues. attached portable magnetic lights and I put a wheel tongue jack on it I had laying around. I kept interstate speed under 65mph.

Dennis,

I'm liking that a whole lot better.

Jake... that's what I was envisioning when I started.... something a lot simpler! Glad those support braces are in there! Shoukd be a lot longer than mine!

Thanks, Jerry.... they didn't have the odd size steel channel that would slide into the tongue, as I had hoped....so won't be tying it back to the axle... but I am changing out the 2 front horizontal with 2" x 2" x 1/4" angle, and moving theme rear axle up at least 2 feet.

Giving up for the night. A few more holes for clamps, then switch to moving the axle frame up at least 2 ft, tomorrow night.

Mid

Now you're talking.

Dennis, a heavy wall 3 x 2" cross member would serve you well, welded under the drawbar at the rear, will anchor the drawbar. If you let it extend outwards it will make one of the stronger outriggers you intend fitting. It will also give you a mounting point for a cross bar across the front of the trailer, up to which you can drive the T. This makes it very easy to tie the car down when transporting.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

Allen... and a couple others that have suggested it...

I had a spare 2x2 able iron, welded it across the tail end of the defense, and U-bolted it to the side beams. I Don't trust my welding enough to not weaken the side beams by burning holes through them. I can always have someone else weld them up, down the road.

Tongue weight is now 93 lbs. , as i found the balance poi t, and wnded up with the axle anout 8" aft of it. We'll see how she goes now, with the T!

Better? 249 lbs tongue weight now drops tongue 1 1/2" inches , when on car.... after the car is loaded. Feels about right.

Better? 249 lbs tongue weight now drops tongue 1 1/2" inches , when on car.... after the car is loaded. Feels about right.

Dennis,

Looking better in design but I still have concerns;
In the photo of August 15, 10:21 we can see the main beam setting on the cross support to be attached with a U bolt. This is one area where I would weld all sides of the main beam to the support and also the "out rigger" to the frame. In addition to this I would add another cross piece of square stock welded to the terminated end of the main beam to both sides of the frame.

This end of the main beam is where all the force will happen if you hit a pot hole or something in the road and where the support of the trailer may break. All your strength is on little bolts and nuts but with a complete weld along these joints the strength is probably 100x greater. It is at the "fulcrum" or joint where force is multiplied and nuts on threads will not be as strong as a complete weld done properly.

It is looking nice and well balanced but again I would take it to a trailer shop for evaluation and probably have every joint welded and not bolted together. If they approve of your squareness and weld it all up it will last much longer than bolts that will rust away or threads that might pull loose on road conditions.

Again, I am not an engineer or trailer builder but have never seen a bolt together trailer...even my yard trailer is welded at joints.

Stay safe, I saw a trailer with a back hoe come off a truck and kill people once. You don't want to answer to the State Of Michigan why your trailer failed and it came loose on the road.

Regards,

Tim Moore

Thanks, Tim....

The end of the drawbar does terminate with a 2"x2"x 1/4" angle now. It has a 3/8" u-bolt, but is also welded. I hope to get in to a welder tomorrow, and have him check out, and weld the others... at least the front 2x2's.

Other 2" angle iron is not near enough.
Do what Tim says, and what I said Sunday at 9:36.
Get a square tube same as the main rails and weld it to the rear of the hitch pole and to each side rail.
I like the design otherwise. I plan to copy it.
It looks very good now. Light and low.

Well I am not a expert but have built several trailers that folks that pull them seem happy with the design.
For every foot of cargo space you set the axle center back from center of cargo space 1 inch.
Example,12 foot trailer,axle center would be 7 foot back from front of cargo space. This works well for my use on several trailers.

Good to see you back Mack, you are that guy who I always read your posts and consider them authority.

Tim Moore

Still concerned it's not able to withstand the bumps, twists and turns on the highway with a load. Have not seen your brake set up yet and the suspension seems inadequate. What's the load rating for the axles?
Terry

Well, sugar... I Didn't take pics... but I did get in to a welder today, and he welded a large plate I've and under the drawbar and main support beam connection point , up front. Then he welded a square stick beam from the back side of the drawbar, going all the way across to both suport beams... welded on all sides. Then, he welded up 2x3' angle iron butted up against both the front and the rear faces of the axle support box, and I bolted the axle support box to them with grade 8 5/8" bolts. We couldn't weld the axle frame to the supports, as the axle frame is aluminum.

He said that sucker isn't going anywhere. He had no problem with the rest of the frame or assembly, including the U'bolts.

I don't know the load rating of the axle... but was a commercial boat trailernrated at 3,500 or 3,800 lbs... can't make it out. Tires are 5 ply trailer tires.. inflation to 66 lbs.

I got rid of the bolts, that held the 2 lengths of safety chain together, and couples with proper chain links.

I'm glad you had a welder work on your trailer, the tongue didn't look too good. That said, I think the u bolt set up is a poor design, I hope it doesn't turn around and bite you.

Andy

Well, for the courious... here are the welds ... and 2,000 ( hmm... maybe they were the 3,300 lbs each) straps... 2 in front, 2 crossed in back. Checked the first 15 min then 20bmin, and every hour after. The trailer performed perfectly no way, no bucking, and braking was noticeable, but not borderline at all. 250 lbs tongue weight when fully loaded. The T didn't budge an inch on it's footprint.

Yeah... would have been better with a better tow vehicle, but all was within ratings, and I couldn't be happier.

Low bed allowed for easy on and off ramping. Have 60 or so miles on the T on it's first day.. the most it's seen in one day , probably in 30 years... andup and down the hills around Petoskey, MI.!

nice work

Now that looks great!
I intend to build a similar trailer. I have most of the material including the axle and hitch pole.
I have never had a trailer with springs, I don't intend to build mine with springs.

Dennis - you've come a long way and now have a very nice trailer - well done.

One question - You mention having a 249lb tongue weight. It looks like the car is not centered over the axle, rather it is a bit more forward. There appears to be room to position the car about 1 foot further to the rear. It seems like this would reduce the tongue weight a bit and provide a better balance over the axle. Was there a reason you positioned it where it is?

Dennis, would you consider a decent rail across the front of the trailer? This serves two purposes. You can drive the car right up to it, with no fear of going over the end.
Secondly, It takes a lot of the load off the tie downs and the front axle. The tie downs need only to hold the tyres against the rail. There is no great load transferred from the tiedowns to the axle, and no load at all on the wishbone and ball.
It also means there is less need for load on the rear tiedowns. They just keep the car centred on the bed. They merely take the load in a panic stop.

My rail fits into square sockets at the front of my trailer. It is removable/can be swapped around, depending on the load.

Allan from down under.

Steve...
Actually, I thought I read here in the forum, that 250lbs would be a good target tongue weight , and it did indeed, pull beautifully. I think the max tongue weight for this vehicle is 300 lbs, so it WOULD be nice to be farther away fro max than 50 lbs. The blocks are easily moved...which brings me to Allan's suggestion...

Yes... i do plan on putting a steel bar... or box/slot approximating a motorcycle wheel brace someone posted ... it would be about 28" tall and allow the front wheels to drove 'into' it, but I wanted a couple runs to play with positioning the car. Once I find the optimilum position, I'll set up the stop braces.

Dennis,

Your tongue weight is ideal. About 250 - 300 lbs.

Too light on the tongue and she'll sway.

Looks pretty nice for what you had to start with.

I would add some larger wheel stops up front.
This does two things, with the front wheel up against the stops your tie downs then simply hold the wheels tight against the stops and second the most likely loading will be in the forward motion.

You need to be careful when winching not to pull too hard against the wishbone ball! Pulling to back with the tie downs on the rear axle can easily do that. I like the crisscross pattern to prevent side movement not forward.

You have done a really nice job on the trailer and I like the things you have changed. You have been really receptive to suggestions and if they were good or bad you considered them and took appropriate measures that you thought best.

I have one final suggestion that is really important and I am not casual on this, take this for a fact from experience...find a matching wheel and have a piece of heavy equipment run over it to bend it then mount it while you store the good wheel and tire. Now when everyone you know wants to borrow your trailer you can tell them it is broken.

A trailer will make you more friends than you ever knew existed.

Nice work-

Tim Moore

I may have missed something but earlier in the conversation I expressed concerns about the brake system and suspension. Do you have additional pictures you can post showing details? The brake system is one of the most important parts of the equation. As light as the T and trailer combination is, there will still be considerable weight pushing you if you get into a panic stop situation. What is the tow vehicle?
Terry

Yep vehicle was a 2010 Toyota RAV4. It towed and stopped beautifully. I was driving/towing like in was driving a T, however... not fast, slow well ahead if time, and used brakes as little as possible. When I did brake, though... I really didn't feel a real 'push. Would I have i a panic stop?... most likely. Can't add another 2,500+ lbs ... and not expect a change.

There are no brakes on the trailer. I'm certainly not against aging them, but will be some $$, I'm sure. I don't have any pictures, but the hub area is in the middle of a square flange with four bolt holes in them. For brake backers, maybe? If so, adding brakes may not be major mechanical work.

Suspension? Leaf springs at the wheels, but no shocks. I didn't notice any skipping or bouncing around in the trailer when we hit chuck holes, etc.

Additional brakes... surge or electric, would no doubt help, but on this trip, I didn't feel as though were needed at all.

Tim... hehehe... good idea!!!
Thanks for the xomments... it wouldn't be half the trailer it is now, we're not not for constructive comments received here!

Great job. You will have many happy safe miles with that trailer!!!!

I'm sure you are going to try and be very safe but it's the other nuts out there I'm most concerned about. I always try to leave plenty space in front of me but it's hard to prevent someone from pulling into it. Those who don't trailer never seem to understand how much additional stopping distance is required. Your handiwork is admirable. Don't scrimp on safety.

Yes... training is much like driving a T... or a motorcycle.... you can do everything right and some dumb-arse can take it all away. Brakes and a bigger haul vehicle would be grand ... but not in the cards for this year. Maybe brakes, next year, though... although even THOSE can get you in trouble if not used correctly!

Yes... training is much like driving a T... or a motorcycle.... you can do everything right and some dumb-arse can take it all away. Brakes and a bigger haul vehicle would be grand ... but not in the cards for this year. Maybe brakes, next year, though... although even THOSE can get you in trouble if not used correctly!

We'll, finally back from vacation, and the trailer performed nothing less than perfect! The vacation was wonderful... probably around 200 miles on Frank, up and down the hills in and around Petoskey, etc. The only 'problem I had really wasn't, because of the forum.... I was going up a steep hill in Petoskey, and the car started bucking, spitting, popping, etc. I had just checked the gas and knew I had 2 gallons left.... JUST barely enough to remind me about the gravity fed fuel system in the T! LOL. I was lucky to make it over the top of the bill, and back to our stay, where I promptly out the reserve 2 gallons in, and topped everything off the next day.