Running in and the brake band

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Running in and the brake band
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 08:45 pm:

So I am running in my chassis and tweaking various adjustments. I was originally worried about the super tight Kevlar bands. Despite the metal bands being round, they were pretty tight even when I backed off the nuts.

Now that I'm running the car the slow speed and reverse seem to be ok. When I push them down they work fine and when I lift up on the pedal they return. The brake band works but when I lift up on the pedal it doesn't come all the way up. So, I'm worried about that band dragging on the drum. I installed the stronger springs but had to back off the nut so the band wouldn't be too tight on the drum. I am wondering if I should attach an external spring to pull the brake pedal back just for safety's sake. Maybe over time it will work it's way in.

I am removing the transmission cover after each drive to check the drums and remove the metal bits on the magnets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 06:24 am:

Any ideas ... thoughts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 08:49 am:

Pedal and or pedal notchs worn?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 09:30 am:

I was thinking the same thing as Chad...there should be nearly zero free play fore/aft on pedal without some side motion immediately taking up the brake band. Fortunately, this can be fixed pretty easily at this point if they'r worn. Also was wondering if the longer/stiffer springs were installed between the bands. There is just no reason to need auxilliary spring if pedal/cam is in good condition and a good spring is between the band ears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 09:33 am:

I see on your other thread that you installed the heavier springs between the band ears so ignore that portion of my post above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 10:10 am:

I don't remember the pedal shafts or notches being worn. I guess I could take off the hogs head and go over them again ... but the initial problem was the bands being too tight even at their more loose adjustment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 10:21 am:

Take a good look at the base of the pedal where it goes into the transmission. As you move the pedal forward you will notice that the shaft moves toward the left which tightens the band against the drum. It should begin to compress the band after moving forward just an inch or so. If it does not start to compress the band until it is almost at the floorboard, the cam is worn out. The cam is bolted to the side of the hogshead. Another thing which can happen is after many years of pressing hard on the pedal that the pedal or the shaft bends which will cause the pedal to be too far forward when the brake is off.

However, from your description that the band is adjusted very loose, I don't think that is your problem. I would suspect that the spring is too short. The vendors do carry longer springs which will put pressure to expand the band and which will also push the pedal back when it is not being used. You can easily note that when the pedal is released, the two ends of the band are not both in contact with the spring. If so, you need a longer spring.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 12:32 pm:

Also be sure the shaft is not loose on the pedal. I just went through this on my low pedal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 01:11 pm:

No the pedal to shaft is not loose.have never actually seen a loose pedal on a T ... they are usually really hard to remove.

Norm, there are no floor boards yet, just a running chassis. The cams seemed ok when I inspected the hogs head and pedals when I had it apart. The springs are the ones Langs sells for Kevlar bands and are making contact on both sides of the band tabs ... but just barely since I have the nut backed off pretty far to avoid the band dragging. This is the reason the pedal has no return ... there is barely enough spring tension. The reason was the band lining seemed to be "thicker" when I installed the bands on the drums. Maybe I should just tighten the brake band and drive it around the block .... it might seat better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 04:24 pm:

Mark, I am a newbie to the Kevlars. I can tell you I too thought the kevlar seemed thicker (and maybe it is) but I have adjusted my pedal three times now and still don't have an adequate brake pedal. I too am concerned of it dragging, so I am sneaking up on the adjustment. If it will help at all, I can snap a pic of where mine adjusting nut is (which is pretty close to right now) and it may help you to get yours close.

Obviously you also found out there needs to be enough tension on the spring, something I think we all assumed you had.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 04:36 pm:

Try pushing the car in neutral. Then tighten up the nut 1/2 turn and push again. Keep tightening 1/2 turn at a time until you begin to feel a drag when you push the car. Then back off 1/2 turn. The car should roll easily in neutral with only the drag of the clutch disks hindering the car from rolling. The pedal should begin moving to the left shortly after pushing forward and move a couple inches forward before it gets tight. You might find that after you stop the car a few times the band will settle in. Under no circumstances drive the car with a drag on the band. That is what causes them to get hot and crack the drums.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 06:03 pm:

Mark, if you ... Maybe I should just tighten the brake band and drive it around the block .... it might seat better,

you run a good chance of doing what Norman said in his last sentence! :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 07:24 pm:

Ok ... so what then? Right now I am taking short drives (15 min) around the neighborhood. Been thinking about these tight bands for months and have had lots of good answers ... for everything except the actual problem. :-)

The only other thing I can think off is removing the hogshead and yanking them out .... and relining them with cotton. So confusing. In theory, one would think the by use over the years the drums would be worn smaller. As a result the new linings on perfectly round bands should be more loose. Instead they were so tight on the drums it was difficult to install the nuts on the shaft.

I screwed the nuts down tight and left them that way for a few weeks which helped. I'm ok with the clutch and reverse at this point. It's the brake that's left. If I leave it loose there is not enough spring tension for the pedal to come all the way back. If I tighten it to the point where there is spring tension ... it might drag.

Running out of ideas. Don't want to put the body on the chassis until I sort this out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Fuller on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 08:50 pm:

Mark,

If you didn't change them before, I would recommend pulling the hogs head back off and replacing all of the pedal shaft cams and the springs with the longer, stronger ones the vendors sell.

I had the same problem after I installed Kevlar bands for the fist time. The pedals wouldn't return and I had the hardest time finding the correct adjustment.

I decided to bite the bullet, pull my hogs head back off and replace the cams and springs. I could not believe the difference it made. I just wish I would have done it the first time I had the hogs head off!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 08:58 pm:

See my post under brake pedal doesn't return ... solved the problem! :-) I had posted it under two headings when I didn't get any response.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 09:57 pm:

Glad you solved the problem. It is always a relief when it is not a major fix.
Norm


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