Could someone identity what day 8,263,305 engine number was made in 1923? I did some basic calculations and I'm coming up with somewhere about November 30, 1923. Give or take a few days. Would appreciate any help.
Not quite right. According to the encyclopedia the date is Friday, August 24, 1923. The car would be a 1924 model. The old wives call it a "late 1923", but they are wrong.
My 1923 Touring, #8040470 was born on what date?? I found the number stamped on the RH front floorboard riser. Can someone look this up for me?
Thank you, Paul in Tacoma
I thought numbers were not stamped anywhere on the T other than the engine until the 26/7. Or maybe I'm confused with TT's.
When did they start stamping the engine number in other locations on the T?
Paul, as far as I know there's no record of body number dates. If that #8040470 is also above the water inlet on the engine, the date would be Wednesday, July 18, 1923.
Robert you're correct. April 29 factory letter says use of body numbers discontinued on May 1, 1915 & no records kept of same. I think they started stamping no's. on the frame Dec. '25.
Serial numbers stamped any place other than the engine before December 12, 1925, were added after the car left the factory.
I suspect that my number was stamped sometime after the car left the factory. The car did not have an engine when I bought it. It will have a 1919 starter engine soon. Also the number stamped on the floorboard riser has another number, a 2 following the 8040470.
Thank you for setting me straight!
I'm wondering if all of the cars got numbers on the frame starting with 12,861,044 on December 12th. My '26 Coupe with engine # 12,915,852, A December 14 build has no number on the frame. The frame is in excellent condition with no pitting or other modification that would conceal the number if it were there. I'm quite confident the engine is original to the car as it was standard bore, with 2 piece valves and a standard size crank when I needed to replace the babbitt. Further the car has many of the features unique to the early build with no flair on the rear cross member, small battery cover and a wooden package shelf. The body hasn't seen any rust through and the sheet metal seems to have the same light level of patina/use as the frame.
So, is it likely that not all December builds had the serial number stamped on the frame?
Walt, did you check both sides? The number is usually on the right rail, but occasionally it's on the left. And, as Bruce said, apparently not all cars got it. Yours could be one of those.
Yes, checked both sides, nothing there. Just two days after the specified start date, some of the workers may not have gotten the word or maybe just not in the habit of adding the number on the frame. It's just seemed to be another oddity on the car. It's also the only closed '26 that I've seen with apparently factory installed clincher rims. It even has the correct spare tire brackets for the clinchers. None of this really concerns me as right or wrong, it's just kind of an amusement for me.
A couple fine points. SOME states that did register cars during or soon after the model T production era did allow for stamping the original engine number somewhere onto the frame or body. Califunny preferred frame numbers, and encouraged people to have the frame stamped even in the early '20s. Many years ago, I saw and read the passage about that in a 1931 state issued handbook. Califunny was not the only state to do this.
Paul S, It is very likely that when the engine was removed from your car, the person or shop that removed it, stamped the number onto the body to keep the title valid.
The "Chassis Number" clip that Steve J (thank you for that Steve!) posted is correct, so far as the 1920s are concerned. Most years, and about half the cars, of the brass era, however, were a little different. Until spring 1915, practically all Ford cars had three serial numbers. The body number was issued by the company (Beaudette, Wilson, Fischer, about five others) that built the body. These body numbers were recorded for some of the earlier cars, but not all cars. They were used mostly for bookkeeping and bill paying purposes mostly between Ford and the outside supplier. Remember, Ford did not generally build any bodies during the brass era, and only a bit over about half the bodies during the '20s. Brass era body numbers were also used by Ford when replacement parts were requested for a damaged car, to make certain that a proper fitting replacement was sent. Otherwise, body numbers then were of little interest or value.
Today, it would be nice if we could construct a good database of body manufacturer and serial numbers to aid in the proper restoration of cars to fit the time frames of the bodies.
That silly little brass plate on the firewall, was called a "car number". Yet, Ford never used it as any sort of official "serial number". It may be that they considered doing so early on. At the beginning of model T production, the official serial number on the engine block, and that brass plate "car number" may have matched. In many cases they did. In some, they did not. As time went on, the two numbers got further and farther apart. In the early years, each car had a build sheet, both numbers would be recorded on it. As time went on, Ford stopped recording the "car number, continuing only with the "official serial number" as stamped on the engine block. At some time during the 1915 calendar and model year, Ford simply stopped stamping "car numbers" onto that brass plate. The plate remained the same at first, simply not stamped. A couple years later, they changed the plate to one that had no place to put such a number. That plate's basic purpose was (and had for some time been) as a patents statement plate.
Until December '25, only the engine serial number was considered the official number for the car. However, some states did their own thing. Many brass era cars were titled or licensed by their car number. Ford eventually bowed to state's demands, and started putting the official serial number onto the frame also (Dec '25).
I'm with Walt. I have a '26 Tudor that was assembled sometime in the first week of December 1925. The engine number matches the original copy of the title I have but no frame numbers anywhere.