Reverse Reverse!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Reverse Reverse!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Ryan Snellen on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 10:44 am:

Rear wheel is jack up and trans cover off to inspect the drum function with engine running. The clutch and brake pedal and drums work fine however when I push the reverse pedal the reverse drum stops but no results. I disassembled and reassembled last year to clean the gears and drums from years of sitting. Before doing so, I was able to go in reverse. Did I loose a key? Thoughts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 10:50 am:

What position is the hand bake lever in?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Ryan Snellen on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 10:55 am:

I have it pulled back so the clutch is in neutral. No brake lines are connected to the rear hubs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 11:00 am:

So if I get this right your engine is running and your reverse drum is stopped but your wheels aren't moving. Any aux trans or ruxtell? What does it do in forward?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Ryan Snellen on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 11:18 am:

No sir. No aux trans. Simple straight through old school drive shaft. Using the clutch pedal, low engages well and smooth. Releasing to high, there is some studdering which I believe to be associated to the adjustment of the e-brake lever bolt which positions the clutch cam which Dan Treace brought to my attention the other day as I was having resistance pushing the car around. I adjusted the bolt yesterday and the vehicle loosened up. Didn't take for a drive as I was prioritizing with a number of small tasks but I will this afternoon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 11:34 am:

You push the peddle with no results, but is the reverse drum stopped. May just need some adjustment of the band.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 07:44 pm:

..... trans cover off to inspect the drum function with engine running.....

And you don't have oil spraying all over?

Any oil in the engine?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 07:45 pm:

Beautiful profile picture, J. Ryan ! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 08:06 pm:

The Dallas club replaced the transmission cover with plexiglass. Running , it is astonishing to see the volume of oil in movement. This was one of the neat things about go to a swap meet in the Dallas area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 09:26 pm:

Must not be any oil in the engine. (As detailed by David.) The trans shaft is probably seized to the drums.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 09:38 pm:

If you push the reverse pedal and the drums stops then the band is working, there must be something else going on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Ryan Snellen on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 09:42 pm:

Haha. There is plenty of oil in the ole engine! If you've never seen it run without the cover, there are YouTube videos to see it in action. Obviously have the engine at low ideal speed. There will be minimal splash but nothing like I expected originally too.

Thank you for the '12 compliant David!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Ryan Snellen on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 09:45 pm:

My diagnosis exactly Mark. Fishing for collective thoughts. Would the pressure plate/clutch plate bolts have any bearing to this trouble?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 10:26 pm:

The bolts only hold the drive plate to the brake drum, so no. Try this, with the engine off try turning the reverse drum. While it's highly unlikely, I wonder if the rivets sheered and the drum is turning on the hub but not doing anything. There might be enough friction to turn the drum with the motor running but not enough to drive the triple gears for reverse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Sunday, August 20, 2017 - 10:27 pm:

Not for reverse and low. They go though the triple gears and go directly to the output. That's why you can have the brake lever pulled back half way and still use them. Does low work? Maybe the driven gear is broken or the key sheered. (Or never installed) Or the triple gears aren't on there shafts. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, August 21, 2017 - 01:08 am:

The brake drum/drive plate/tail shaft is part of the connection between the engine and rear end. The main shaft rotates at what ever speed the engine is running at inside the drums. If the keys or driven gear were missing, you would not have low. That's the gear that turns the brake/drive plate/tail shaft. It's mounted on the hub the brake drum is rivited to. If the triple gears were missing you would not have low ether.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, August 24, 2017 - 10:14 pm:

Any updates?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Lay,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Lancaster Ca. on Thursday, August 24, 2017 - 10:39 pm:

Just a thought. If the thrust washer in the rear end is worn out or degrading the twist of the gears will allow the gears to engage in low and high, going forward, but will disengage under braking and in reverse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 08:47 am:

You're not going to know, (or fix it), until you pull the engine and take it apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 08:52 am:

Scott: "the twist of the gears will allow,,,,,," Please explain this. Thanks, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 09:04 am:

You may have installed the sun gear on the brake drum backwards so that the reverse drum gear free wheels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 10:07 am:

I agree with Scott, the problem is probably in the RE or DS.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 10:14 am:

The gear on the brake drum shaft drives the car in both reverse and low, you would not be able to assemble the drums to the flywheel if it was reversed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Lay,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Lancaster Ca. on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 11:03 am:

J.B. Sorry I wasn't clear. Several years ago I was on my way to work in my T and a light changed at just the wrong time and I had to get on the brake much harder than normal. My car began to stop but then went into free wheel with only a slight rumble. In an effort to get back home I found it would go forward just fine but would not stop or go in reverse. I called Glen Chaffin ,not far away, and he told me it was more than likely the trust washer (or packing) in the rear end and after the tear down he was right. I replaced it with a new brass one and, happily ever after. The twist or torque in forward direction would allow the ring and pinion to mesh but braking or reverse would push the axle against the now worn out thrust washer the gears would release. I don't know that is whats going on here but like I said. Just a thought.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Ryan Snellen on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 11:13 am:

Morning gents. I've not been able to go back and diagnose further. Seems I've found quite the gremlin.

I've replaced all rear end washers and bushings last winter so the rear end is in good shape and reverse worked on initial install prior to my recent transmission removal/cleaning.

I'm in flight to Minneapolis MN until Monday. I'll be able to revisit the drums again next week but expect I'll need to pull the drums out and re-inspect. I'll take a video and share with anyone whose interested.

When the engine is running, all drums rotate. When I press the reverse pedal the appropriate drum stops with no reverse wheel response.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Ryan Snellen on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 11:16 am:

Good description Scott. That was the same/similar action this rear end had last year. When I'd press a pedal, the ring and pinion would skip (sounds so much better than grind :-) ).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 04:45 pm:

Thanks, Scott, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J. Ryan Snellen on Thursday, August 31, 2017 - 09:48 am:

Morning gents. I'm heading down to diagnosis the lack of reverse problem a bit further. Thanks for all the help so far. I'll have an update later today.


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