ordered replacement sleeves and bearings as existing were grooved and bearings were very sloppy. The replacements( sleeves) were of comparable size but arrived with no grease hole or locking dimple. With a complete metal shop at my whim a hole for grease and a rivet of same size as the dimple this new part is now ready for install. My question is how the devil would a man in his garage with limited skills and machinery be able to complete this task. Will resize pics tomorrow and post here
He wouldn't. He'd pretty much be screwed.
How did you use a rivet to serve as the dimple without messing up the near surface?
That should read "inner" surface, not near surface. Auto correct strikes again.....
Michael, I hope you did not install non grooved bearings in your axle. The grooves are there in the original bearings because the rollers are made of spring steel and wound into rollers. They are designed to flex to compensate for slight misalignment. The solid roller bearings that are being sold now can break apart and snap the axle shaft off. If your sleeves were made wrong you should return them. It's ridiculous to sell something that obviously is made incorrectly.
used a reamer to clear the inner side of the hole. with an impact hammer with the right size of head and the anvil side of a bench vise the rivet expanded then filed and sanded the inner side smooth
kind of hard to navigate these waters. Ordered the coilbox rebuild kit from MACS wood was useless made my own using the original pieces as a template. Everybody said" don't use MACS) These parts came from Langs. The tech said the catalogue says the hole is not there I said what about the locking dimple he said..wait for it..use a mig welder and file it down. Now I am told the solid bearings are going to ruin my axel's. Yes I studied the bearings and am aware of the technology and manufacturing process used they could not extrude pipe same with the radiator rolled and crimped and soldered sheet copper. I can pean my old bearings to tighten them up and the grooves I refered to were worn into the sleeves, But where to now for parts? This is the easy one the lil 17 cutoff awaits my tender touch and she needs so much more, Is it time to fire up the furnace and get back to casting my own???
The lack of dimple and grease hole is how they have been made for a very long time, allows the person that makes them to only have to make one. I would consider the fact that you can even buy these part a boon to the hobby. The Fun Project coil box kit has been around for a while, and is what has been suggested over and over.
It is sure funny that the Model A guys have been using the solid roller bearings for a very long time in the rear end.
yep, I had to drill my sleeves and put the dimple in as suggested
Okay tom remind me how long you think a dimple of mig weld will last without good penetration on hardened steele. Since I bought the parts from the online store(and no modifications were stated)the incomplete parts were a surprise and Mark are you stating that the solid rollers are okay? There seems to be a great opening to get a consensus on this topic...let the voting begin!
Oh forgot another whoopee. One of the sleeves was rolled off center so I had to true the piece to square, Let's not forget this is very hard steel and would be near impossible for the guy at home to work it
How far and and how fast are you going to drive your TT? Biggest issue is people not lubing the bearing. The load is carried at the top of the housing so a small soft spot at the side should not be an issue from welding a bump for the dimple. How big is the dimple in the original? For a car the dimple isn't really that big compared to the hole it goes in, I think more of the holding power comes from the ruff boar of the housing, friction and being compressed to to install because of the material used comes into play keeping the sleeve in place. I think that a lot of the dimples job is to line up the grease hole.
I do agree that the descriptions on the most all the online dealer catalogs are very basic, I would suggest getting hard copies of the all the catalogs, they are free.
The remarkable thing about new TT parts is that so few are being made, compared to the hundreds of new T parts available. Apparently the market for truck parts is just so much smaller that it won't support production of a lot of the parts being made for cars.
good points and I have been told that TT parts are the oysters in a can of soup. That being said...!) if ya'll know about these things then why not share the knowledge. If you really want to expand the hobby then share your experience, The coilbox rebuild kit ftom Macs is a piece of crap...lose the wood and sell the rest a person with minimal wood working skills can reproduce the parts and not waste his money. If the TT sleeves are not finished from Langs let a fella know before so he will know a trip to the machine shop is necessary, By the way if the locking dimple lets loose then how will the grease hole line up to grease the bearing.. you won't know until the bearing welds up. I will get my T and TT running just fine with the help of my mentor and my decades of working on cars but what about the poor chap that comes to you on bended knee asking for help to keep the history alive. There is a wealth of knowledge on this site and if you got together and really tried to help the newbie with known bad parts or took your problems to the seller they would make an adjustment to keep the business. as long as crap is bought then crap will be made. As the OT's of this great machine you should share you knowledge and applaude any resurrection as long as it still runs down the road
How can we help if you don't ask questions? Don't start blaming or chiding us, the information has been shared many times and will be shared many times in the future.
Advertise in the classified for some original roller bearings. Someone will have some. You can also look for a junk rear axle.
Another thought, since you have access to a shop, why don't you make a Timken Roller Bearing assembly to replace the Hyatt original. It might make you a new product you could sell to the TT community.
The new sleeves I bought were not very hard at all. I ran a file over them and a stock original one - it was harder for sure. We well see how they hold up
As Mark says, there are plenty of people perfectly willing to share what they know. In fact, a few have even made web pages, videos, or special files so they don't have to keep retyping the same information whenever a question comes up. A Google search of the forum will often show that a question has been answered or discussed more than once, often in great detail. "As long as crap is bought then crap will be made" is quite correct, and complaints/warnings often turn up on this forum, and the person posting the gripe is usually reminded also to contact the seller and give him a chance to correct the problem.
It's been years since I did mine, but I knew I would have to drill the hole and weld the dimple before I ordered. I just don't remember from where I gleaned that information. It was either in the vendor's ad or else on this forum, but I know I knew beforehand.
Did not mean to blame or chide. Do the new solid bearings fail?
Did not mean to blame or chide. Do the new solid bearings fail?
I have no personal experience with the solid roller bearings because I haven't replaced any TT bearings, and original Hyatt bearings for the car are plentiful. But I can report what I've read and heard. Over the years there have been several reports of the solid bearings failing. On the other hand, a very knowledgeable parts dealer has told me that they're better than their reputation. His opinion was that originals are better, but the solid rollers are acceptable.
If I have to replace TT bearings, I see three choices. My first choice would be to find good originals. If I couldn't find any, my second choice would be to look into Ted's suggestion of fitting Timkens. If I couldn't find those of the right size, my last choice would be to use the solid rollers while looking for originals, and check them at least annually. In a TT only driven occasionally they might last for years. In one that gets a lot of use, maybe not.
I have seen pictures of broken solid roller Hyatts, but I've also seen pictures of broken original T crankshafts. That wouldn't make me spend the money for a Scat. However, as long as I can find good original Hyatts, I will stick to them.
that's as close as I can get to swearing since I already bought the solid bearings(crickets). My partner in crime "Pat" , a great machinist and fabricator whom I would trust with my life says" I see no problem" and I myself have studied them to the nines and see no design flaw. BUT....The majority of you say nay including my mentor George House. I am not without talent but am not blind with arrogance either. I will always bow to the tried and true and thankyou for your input. The solid bearings will be put on my wall of shame to remind me to be humble. My originals are in excellent shape and all measure .5 inches with no marks, galls or flat wear so they will be loaded up and reinstalled after I split this Pumpkin open for a good cleaning and a look at what's goin on in there.
I ponder in my head if axle housing mis-alignment is the actual enemy of the solid rollers available for the cars and trucks.
I do not know that answer and wished I did.
As mentioned already, some claim "absolutely not" when asked if OK to use solid rollers.
While a few have claimed for years that the solid rollers will go for thousands of miles on the cars.
We already know that the housing tubes can be (easily?) bent on the cars. I have some nice, slightly bent ones in the little shop to prove.
The trucks? I have no clue and wish I did and might find out in the next some years.
Wow, TT parts are spendy! :-) Hah! I haven't even bought rear tires yet. :-)
Rocky, you mention something that struck me.
These dog-gone model T's will humble the toughest souls, eh? Uh huh.
I'm gonna ask you a question Rocky (jeez, I sound like my FIL). Are the rollers in your TT Hyatt's 0.5"?
It's been stated in print that the TT rear axle Hyatt outer bearings (1019) should be 0.562", up to 5 thou wear is acceptable.
Was that a typo or are your rollers worn down that far?
Shoot, if your originals are worn down that far I'd use those expensive solid rollers and pull them apart for cleaning/inspection every year to be certain all is well with them.
And then look for some original TT Hyatt's along the way. :-)
Perhaps checking the axle housings to be certain they're perfect might be a good thing. As far as I know.
I wish I had more for you.
Please excuse this long babble.