OT 1917 auto ID

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: OT 1917 auto ID
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 09:23 am:

I am working on some research regarding an accident where a car was struck by a locomotive in 1917 here in Rochester. Six of the seven people in the car were killed. We need to know the make of the car. Here is a scan of a negative supplied to us but the resolution is low. Nevertheless I thought someone here might be able to ID the wheel and hub cap shape.


wreck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 03:04 pm:

Any ideas on this? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 03:34 pm:

IMO, your best bet is to get the highest resolution version you can and blow it up until you can read the logo on the hubcap. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 04:04 pm:

"Blow it up until you can read the hubcap" probably got them in this mess to begin with...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 04:43 pm:

Looks like a fairly large car. Pretty sure it is not a big Buick or Studebaker. I don't think it is a Cadillac either. And definitely not a Packard hubcap. Locomobile had a hubcap very similar to that for a few years. But I don't see anything to confirm or deny any car I can think of.
A good optical zoom in on the hubcap may be your best chance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 05:09 pm:

Looks like a Simplex cap, but not clear enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 07:07 pm:

Hmm ... like I mentioned in the original post ... this is the resolution I was given. There is no other scan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt cwynar on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 07:35 pm:

I would agree with the simplex idea. It looks like the right bolt pattern. And logo shape.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 07:37 pm:

Can't you contact the museum and obtain (purchase) a higher resolution scan?

http://collections.rmsc.org/LibCat/rights.html

Also, there are two views of the car.

Type Geilser in the search box on this page and you will get both views. Here is the second view:

http://libcat.rmsc.org/aquabrowser/?q=%22collection:Albert%20R.%20Stone%20Negative%22

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 07:47 pm:

Note that the description for the photo posted in the original post says "Empire automobile."

I'll bet you can also find a corresponding newspaper article in the Rochester Herald, also referenced in the description. That may also confirm that it was an Empire.

Note that Empire used an oval logo in print ads. Probably the same oval logo on the hubcap.

https://www.google.com/search?q=empire+automobile&client=safari&rls=en&source=ln ms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjz6dv9gezVAhWiz4MKHfxFBD0Q_AUIDCgD&biw=1240&bih=686# imgrc=_


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 07:52 pm:

Not clear enough but maybe someone can ID the logo design?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 08:04 pm:

I believe I may have already provided the answer -see my posts above. The museum in which the negatives are housed references "Empire automobile" in the description of the photo.

This happens to be a 1917 Empire, but the car in the accident photo could be 1918 model year or earlier, considering the accident occurred in September 1917.

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 08:05 pm:

Erik has the match. Here's the hub caps on HubCap Collector site.

http://hubcapcollector.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=694


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 08:07 pm:

Forgot to add, scroll down after all the other junk message stuff to see the photo.

http://hubcapcollector.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=694


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 09:01 pm:

The period newspaper account did not mention the make of car. The person giving a lecture about this accident sent me both images but I only posted the one that might be able to be identified because of the hub cap. I told them to go to the science museum and see if they will put the original negative on a light table for inspection. Just thought someone on the forum might be able to ID it quickly. Thanks guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 09:44 pm:

"The remains of an Empire automobile near train tracks. Black Diamond Express crashed into Joseph Geisler, Sr.'s car. Six members of his family were killed."


[Geisler accident]

Acc. No.: 40.332.3784
Maker: Stone, Mr. Albert R.
Category: Photographs
Collection: Albert R. Stone Negative
Description:
The remains of an Empire automobile near train tracks. Black Diamond Express crashed into Joseph Geisler, Sr.'s car. Six members of his family were killed.

Subject(s): Empire automobile.
Railroad accidents--New York(State)--Rochester.
Traffic accidents--New York (State)--Rochester.
black-and-white negatives.
Notes:
location:
F42; Automobile Accidents

alternate numbers:
3451 Stone neg. number

Publications:
Rochester Herald 1917-09-11 (, 1917-09-11) -

Date made: 1917?
Materials: glass
Measurements: overall: 5 x 7 in.
Credits: From the Albert R. Stone Negative Collection, Rochester Museum & Science Center Rochester, N.Y.
Names: Geisler, Joseph.
Black Diamond Express.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 10:10 pm:

Empire. That is a rare one.


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