Need help identifying a modified 1907 Model N

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Need help identifying a modified 1907 Model N
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tod Wirth - Richfield, WI on Monday, August 28, 2017 - 10:29 pm:

Recently I acquired a 1907 Model N and I have found that it has some interesting period modifications that I would like to find more information about.



The first thing is that it has been modified so that it is equipped with a rear seat similar to a Model S roadster, instead of the stock trunk.



The fenders and hood are also not factory original equipment.




The frame has some short extensions on it which move the radiator forward about 1 3/4". The flywheel/fan has an extension shield on it with vanes on the inside and the engine hood would need to be longer than stock by the same amount.




Can anyone provide me with information about these period modifications and who the manufacturer was? I would also like to know if there are other examples out there. I would especially like to find another example of the rear seat since all that is really left of it is the base.

Thanks for any help that you can provide.

Tod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 12:13 am:

For whatever my opinion is worth. The frame extension, hood and fenders look very poorly done, and could even be later model T pieces made to work. Those things, I would recommend returning to original configuration. Finding something you could borrow to make copies from should not be very difficult.
The dickey seat, could maybe be an original after-market item. That, I would consider restoring.

If you haven't already, check out the Early Ford Registry website and forum,

http://www.earlyfordregistry.com/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 12:31 am:

Nice photos. I enjoyed looking.
Thanks and good luck.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 10:58 am:

Something is different with the shift lever also.

Anyway, please make your first order of business flipping the steering wheel over the correct way. It's a real hang-up of mine. Sorry.

As mentioned above, the mods do not look like aftermarket accessory things, but rather homemade modifications. The rear set/trunk does look very nice however. I would definitely keep & restore it, as Rob Heyen did on his modified N.

While your hood may be wrong, the handles are correct, don't loose them.

You've got a great start there, with all the hard-to-find stuff apparently there. Model NRS cars can be a challenge to restore, but don't get discouraged. My best advise to you is to buy everything that's currently available for it, while it's available, as the NRS parts trade is not continuous and available "whenever", as Model T stuff mostly is. Start saving now for a radiator...

Also, your rear end housings are most likely bent, as 99% of them are. And, your transmission frame will be cracked, as 99% of them are. If you're really lucky, you can blast it, boil it & bake it clean and MAYBE get a good weld repair on it. Mine was welded successfully. Otherwise, get a new one while you can. Trans drums & gears are usually shot. New are available, if needed.

Keep in touch!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 11:43 am:

That is just plain cool! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 12:10 pm:

By the way, what is your engine number? Mine is 6000.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 12:15 pm:

It is well worth the price to get a copy of Pate's Early Ford Automobile Encyclopedia, it has tons of info on early Fords (and 1909 Model Ts). :-)

https://www.modeltford.com/item/PATE-ENCY.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tod Wirth - Richfield, WI on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 01:43 pm:

Thank you all for your input.

Wayne... I joined the EFR and put this post for help up in their forum also.

Mark... I do not have that book yet but I was planning on getting it with my next order from Langs.

Jerry... I suspect the steering wheel is later T although that is not something I have checked into as of this point. The spider is steel and has FORD in script cast into what should be the bottom side. It is about 13 1/4" across (spider only). What should it be?

The engine and body number are #3578 which should make it a late February to early March 07 car (Thanks Trent B.)

Yes, the shift lever has also been changed. It looks like it is missing a hand grip that went over the end of it. That may have been part of the original modifications or a later repair.

To ALL... While the sheet metal parts are bent up and badly corroded in places (and basically look like hell now), the original construction of these was well above a back yard job. The rolled edges are very well done and would require tooling and equipment that few would have at their disposal at the time. The sheet metal is not modified T parts either. As an example, the hood panels are about 7" longer than a brass era T hood.

Jerry... Looking over the transmission frame I have not found any cracks so far, without taking it out and cleaning it up to better inspect it. Are there certain weak spots I should be focusing on?

Wish you were closer Jerry. Do you know of any other N,R or S's in Southern Wisconsin? Are you going to be at the OCF with your N?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 05:43 pm:

I notice the hood former on the firewall is for a round-topped hood, not the tombstone shape typical of Fords. I wonder if this car at some point ran with someone else's radiator on it, or if the firewall was scabbed in from some other car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 11:04 am:

Tod,

No, the fenders are not homemade. I'm thinking they look a little like Maxwell fenders. I meant the radiator extension, flywheel shroud and shift lever.

I will be at OCF, but unfortunately, have not signed up my N this year. I usually bring 3 cars but, since I'll be getting married the following weekend, I decided to simplify things a little by only bringing one, a '24 Buick, which I can drive there & back with no trailer issues, borrowed drivers, etc.

Don't know of any Wisc. NRS's. Floyd Jaehnert in in Minn., if that helps. Have you searched the EFR member's roster for any nearby NRS folks?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tod Wirth - Richfield, WI on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 11:08 am:

Tim... Yes the hood was rounded but they used the stock Ford radiator by installing an adapter, of sorts, on to the top of the radiator.





Here is a photo with the remains of the hood in place. All the sheet metal was painted black and the fenders had a red pin stripe on the top of the beads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 11:13 am:

Richard Darling in MN has a 1906 N. ford06darling@usfamily.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 11:59 am:

Rob might bring his N and K to Hershey.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tod Wirth - Richfield, WI on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 04:29 pm:

I wasn't planning on making it to Hershey (although I would love to go), but we are going to be at the OCF. My wife got her vacation day back and so now we are going again. Hoping to get a close look at a couple of N's, R's & S's there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Kuczynski on Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 10:24 am:

If you don't see any there, you can find them at the Piquette TPLEX in Detroit. They must hate when I go there, because of all the drool they have to clean up when I leave. ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Lindberg on Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 04:24 pm:

I think I have a hood Like that, got it in a pile of T parts at an auction. I will get some pictures tonight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Lindberg on Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 10:49 pm:

Here is the hood I have. Looks a little different but similar.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Lindberg on Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 10:51 pm:

a couple more pics


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 04:08 pm:

Matt,

That looks very much like an Overland hood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 06:26 pm:

That also looks a lot like a Metz hood? What are the dimensions?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Lindberg on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 09:31 pm:

I was thinking Overland too, Metz is also a close resemblance, I will get some measurements.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 08:01 am:

Metz Model 22 Hood



Note that all panels have a raised bead and that the top panels overlap the side panels. There is a large rolled edge at the bottom of the side panels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Balough on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:25 am:

The NRS hoods are not difficult to build. If you have a brake and shear available you can make your hood. Here is the hood I built.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tod Wirth - Richfield, WI on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 10:35 am:

You did a fantastic job on the hood for your S Bruce but being that the modifications to my N appear to be period and fairly unique, I am inclined to restore the car with these modifications and not take it back to a stock N.

Still, it would be great to find a period ad or other information as to the origin of these modifications (if they were a kit of some kind and not someone's one off creation).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Balough on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 10:50 am:

This is what I started with and how it was found.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Balough on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 10:54 am:

Here it is with Rob's K


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration