1916 Ford Landaulette

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: 1916 Ford Landaulette
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. S. Ananth - India on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 01:50 am:

My company TEAMCSA based in India is restoring a 1916 Ford Landaulette. I am looking for pictures of an identical car for reference. Any help in this regard will be appreciated. My Email ID is 'csa@teamcsa.in'

Thank you
Ananth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman, New Zealand on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 05:03 am:

Hi Anath, great to see you posting here. You can get a lot of information on technical details just by asking!
Enjoy the project.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 07:40 am:

Ananth, welcome to the forum.
Vern


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 10:36 am:

Photos of YOUR 1916 landaulette Please
-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Seress, Prescott Az. on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 10:44 am:

Ananth, there are several towncars around the world and several experts on the unique car. As far as I have been told there are no surviving Landaulette models left in existence, unless you have the only one. The towncar has the roof over the driver and a windshield and the landaulette only has the roof over the back doors and the landau retractable roof over the rear passengers. What have you got and can you post pictures and post questions as to what problems you are having. I am just finishing restoration on a 1912 towncar and be glad to help and or refer you to more knowledgeable towncar owners. Frank


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Blake, Kansas City on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 11:20 am:

Frank. I'm still fairly new to T's so please forgive my ignorance. I did a google image search here;

https://www.google.com/search?num=10&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&tbm=isch&so urce=hp&biw=980&bih=643&q=Ford+model+t+Landaulette&oq=Ford+model+t+Landaulette&g s_l=img.12...6095.15064.0.16209.11.11.0.0.0.0.285.1778.0j5j4.9.0....0...1.1j2.64 .img..2.1.207.0..0i24k1.atwquVTORjg

Hoping for period photos but the search brought what appear to be fairly recent photos. I'm not doubting your comment, so I would assume these are recreations of Landaulettes. Correct?

Do you have period photos you can share?

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Seress, Prescott Az. on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 11:52 am:

Gary, Yes there are many reproductions of the towncar and Landaulette models out there but no originals. I was told there are only a few surviving original towncars and all the rest were home made or Ray Wells reproductions, such as mine. Once in a while there are period photos on the internet or on the forum, but, I have seen variations in body features that make them unique and beautiful but different from the ones in our garages. If you are interested I have all of the " Around Town " towncar newsletters written by Mr. Don Watson many years ago. There are towncar owners/past owneres all over that would be more than happy to get you started, included myself, on building one up for yourself. Let us know if we could help you. Frank


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 12:00 pm:

India was British Empire so perhaps the car is RHD and either British or Canadian made?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 06:12 pm:

Being part of the British colonial empire, the car may well be a one-off custom built car. Photos will help if that is the case. Mechanically, lots of help available, bodywise may be a clean slate to re-build it as you like.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 10:17 pm:

Thanks for posting here C. S. is right! :-)
Mr. Ananth has a great facebook page and a nice website! I don't do facebook but it let me peek into his world. I did a search. :-)
Very cool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman, New Zealand on Thursday, August 31, 2017 - 06:10 am:

Well, we do have an original here in NZ, along with period pictures of the car when it was a taxi!

Things do turn up all around :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, August 31, 2017 - 07:34 am:

There used to be an original 1916 Town Car in a Swedish museum, Svedinos, but it has been sold now in the last 5 years, maybe overseas. Serial #940003. It was in a cramped location and hard to catch in a photo.. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/301376.html?1342842865


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Friday, September 01, 2017 - 04:53 am:

Which car is that Adrian?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Friday, September 01, 2017 - 05:06 am:

Mr Ananth,

Please would you add some photos of what you have? Maybe there is not much of it left? If so please would you add some photos of what you want to end up with?

Most probably what you have came to India from Ford of Canada, so the possibilities are many and varied.

We all look forward to assisting you - but we need more direction from you please. You will find some amazing knowledge and assistance here.

For others,

Have a look at the Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/TEAMCSA-1389555328012159/

His website is at http://www.teamcsa.in/index.html

John Stokes
New Zealand


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. S. Ananth - India on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 - 01:12 am:

Based on the feedback from forum members, I am a bit uncertain; whether this car here is a Town Car or Laundaulette. This car has a fixed roof over the Driver's compartment & a retractable roof over the passenger's compartment. Please advise if the car is a town car or Laundalette.

Picture of the car prior to beginning restoration attached


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, September 20, 2017 - 02:35 am:

Any help? December 1915 RHD Canadian town car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By C. S. Ananth - India on Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 03:08 am:

Can anyone give me the following information.
1. What should be the Magneto Magnet Strength?
2. How is the strength measure?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 03:51 am:

If you mean the actual strength of each individual magnet, each one should be able to pick up a 2 pound weight when fully charged. A common practice is to use an old cast iron piston as the test weight. Of course this test method is for a disassembled magneto with the magnets removed.

There are a number of ways to recharge the magnets, some in the car and some out of the car. You can search on "magnet charging mtfca" and similar words and fine many examples. When in doubt, if you are in a position to recharge them, do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike-Iowa on Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 06:49 am:

I believe that Jim Finney does have at least one original Towncar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 11:31 am:

I think a town car has a roof over the driver and a landaulette does not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 01:21 pm:

C.S. Ananth
We are all still waiting to see what you have!!!!

Eric -You are correct about what a Towncar and landaulette is

Mike -Jim Finney has several Towncars

-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susan Yaeger on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 09:19 am:

Mr. Ananth was having some technical difficulties posting photos so I am posting these on his behalf. Thanks to all the great Forum members who are so willing to help with his questions.

Unloaded from trailer.


Roof frame wood work done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 01:04 pm:

Thanks Susan
Hopefully Ananth will send more photos!

I noted his Towncar is a RHD

-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 01:21 pm:

Ananth,
What is the Engine Serial # ????

-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 01:31 pm:

Thank you for the pictures. Fine work on the body wood, what an interesting body style ! (and rare !!).

Front view looks like a '23-'25 - maybe the 1916 body was transplanted on a later chassis ? Interesting wheels !! I hope you will let us see more of this interesting project !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Rosenthal in Cincinnati Oh on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 02:02 pm:

I am also curious about the serial number. The photo is a bit grainy, where the cowl opening does not look like the 15-16 style used for the early hood and brass radiator. Is it possible this is a 17-18 where the black radiator would also be used?
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 04:35 pm:

Another,



Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 04:58 pm:

Ken,
This is LHD

-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 06:04 pm:

Susan,

Thank you for posting the photos. If you have a higher resolution copy, if you can crop it and post details of the firewall and the left arm rest, that could better help with dating the body/car.

Ananth,

"IF" the car's body parts including fenders and chassis were all originally sold new, then the Town Car is most likely a 1924-25 version based on the little bit I can make out in the photos. Of course there is an excellent chance that many things have been changed out of the life of the car.

Why 1924-25?

From: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1923.htm Bruce McCalley shares:

The front section of the car was revised about August 1923, with a new and higher radiator, larger hood, a valence under the radiator, and revised cowl section to match. These cars were generally referred to as “1924” models in Ford literature.

Your car has those features - lipped front fenders to match the apron below the radiator.

I also believe it is the higher cowl 1924-25.
You can easily tell that if you measure the width of the cowl or if you can post or send a photo that clearly shows if the firewall has the reinforcing rib running up from the fire wall mounting bracket (1924-25 car firewall) shown below:



Compare that to the 1923 (fits 1917-1923 as a replacement) firewall below. The width is smaller and the reinforcement ridges do NOT come up above where the firewall to frame brackets attach.



Note also that the hinges on the door appear to be the equal length late 1924 to 1925 style as shown below:



The earlier cars had an unequal length hinges as shown below on a low cowl 1923 touring.



(Thank you to Mark at Model T Haven for letting us use his two photos above!)

And finally I think the arm rest is probably the narrow style used 1921ish-1925 on tourings as shown below:



Rather than the wider style used 1914-16 without the metal end cap and very late 1916-1920ish on tourings shown below:



I think you have a great car to restore. The bail handles on the rear door would lead me to think earlier than 1924-25.

My guess -- an English produced body/T that was brought to India by someone coming from England. India was supplied by Ford of Canada but I don't recall many town cars made in Canada. But if you can let us know what the parts say "Made in Canada" or "Made in England" or "Made in USA" or other.

Again welcome to forum and good luck with your very unique car.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

Ananth,

Note on page 230 of "The English Model T Ford Book, Vol 1" it has 1921 - Last recorded sale of UK Town Car.

But note that the UK tended to have coach built cars. On page 157 they have a photo of a coach built (aftermarket produced) Town Car body on a 1924 UK chassis.

That photo shows the chassis as a Drop Frame chassis which the UK introduced in Jan 1924 (ref page 230 also).

Your front axle does NOT appear to be a drop frame front axle. But on page 156 of the same book they have a note, "Apparently Rolling Chassis could be ordered in either standard or drop frame form." So if your car was produced in the UK by a private coach builder, it could still have been mounted on the standard chassis.

Note, below is a photo of Jay Klehforth's 1923 English Town Car. Note it still has the bail style handles on the rear doors. From the web site at: http://turnerbudds-carblog.blogspot.com/2013/12/last-from-model-t-museum.html :



Of the the 3 or 4 photos of custom bodied Town Cars I saw, none of them used the stock Model T Front doors or cowl area.

Again, please let us know what country the major parts say they were produced in -- USA, UK, Canada or other? And best of luck with your project.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne tomlins on Saturday, September 23, 2017 - 02:37 am:

This is an interesting vehicle which we would like to know more of.
India was supplied with early Fords [RHD] from Canada


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Saturday, September 23, 2017 - 06:30 pm:

Could a high cowl and front doors be grafted onto a 1915-1916 body without much difficulty? I don't know enough about the interchangeability of body parts to say myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, September 23, 2017 - 08:56 pm:

Tim,

For a touring car, yes, it is not that difficult to combine a 1915-1921ish low cowl front with a 1921ish-1925 rear doors and rear seat section. And it can also be combined with the newer 1924-25 front with the earlier 1915-1921ish rear.

From the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/32458.html the photo below (Thank you Kyle Augustin for posting it) you see a 1915-1920-21ish front section mated to a 1921ish-1925 rear section.



Note as described in the posting the body molding from the 1915-1921ish touring car does NOT line up with molding of the 1922-1925 touring cars.

I would assume, but I do NOT know that the front section on a 1915-1921ish town car could be replaced with a 1924-25 front section. I.e. the 1915-1921ish as well as the 1924-25 bodies both are designed to fit the same mounting brackets on the frame. The hood and radiator would of course need to be changed.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, September 23, 2017 - 11:31 pm:

Many years ago, when I got into this hobby, I saw several people build '15s, '14s, and even a few '13s out of late ('23 to '25) touring car and runabout bodies. I do not KNOW either, but I would imagine it would not be difficult to mix late and early front and rear pieces for a town-car or landaulette now, or eighty years ago. Ananth's project would be a fascinating car to study closely.

As for what it should be called? I have been avoiding getting into it myself. Linguistics is such a fascinating subject also. Unfortunately, too many people take their personal view way too seriously. It is bad enough when we discuss coloquialized meanings of words or phrases from nearly a hundred years ago, just for within the boundaries of the USA. Add global differences into the equation, and you get a real mess.
"Towncar", town car, town-car, however you want to spell it, is a tough one. Its meaning has been changed or corrupted several times over the past hundred plus years. What a town-car was in 1914 is NOT what it was in the mid '30s. And a Lincoln town car today is nothing like either one of them. Gotta love marketing. How right or wrong some of this is? Depends a lot on what region of the world we are talking about. I have seen both full roofs and half roofs called town cars. They may or may not have a folding rear section of the top. Landaulettes generally do have a folding rear section of the top.

For whatever it is worth, this is what Wikipedia's Wiktionary has to say about "Landaulette:
A motor car with an open driver’s seat and an enclosed rear section with one cross-seat and a collapsible roof.

Personally, I would call Ananth's project a landaulette. Or the alternate spelling, "landaulet".


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