Attaching the carburetor to intake manifold - hell on earth !

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Attaching the carburetor to intake manifold - hell on earth !
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 03:14 pm:

What's the trick to tightening the two nuts that attach a NH carburetor to an alloy intake manifold? The nuts are very difficult to access using the small Ford spanner I have. I've tighten them somewhat but fear a leak down the road. Didn't someone in the past post a modification to allow this to be done quickly and easily?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ignacio Valdes on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 03:29 pm:

Bolt heads on the carburetor side, nuts on the intake manifold side. You can get a socket on the nut side and a wrench (9/16ths) on the head side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 03:38 pm:

Ignacio, that's the way I tried. There's no clearance for a socket over the nuts; the gap between nut and manifold is tiny.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 03:45 pm:

Constantine

when in your situation, I've found that a crow's foot on a 3/8" extension works pretty well


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 03:56 pm:

As graddpap would say you are not holding your mouth right! I have seen a long head set of bolts that go in from the intake side and people say they work pretty good.https://www.modeltford.com/item/4130GEN.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ignacio Valdes on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 04:00 pm:

Send picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 04:02 pm:

I did include a link


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 04:03 pm:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/TEKTON-3-8-in-Drive-10-24-mm-Crowfoot-Wrench-Set-10-P iece-2580/205653881?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25T-HandTools%7c &gclid=CjwKCAjwranNBRBhEiwASu908BS9TPlqiu7_TIWiCoRDU1hVV8Dy777Fkgw7EK88nK0k20PeQ 0JLRRoCBk8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CNqAtt6lh9YCFRWwTwodtvUBdg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 04:07 pm:

Constantine

Try these from Langs. they work great!

https://www.modeltford.com/item/4130GEN.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Mullins Spokane Wa. on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 04:16 pm:

I use an 9/16 open end off set wrench on head of bolt a 1/4 inch drive socket and short extension & ratchet on nut toward generator.Carry in my tool always.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ignacio Valdes on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 04:19 pm:

Constantine, please send a picture. The socket should fit on the manifold side. A open end box wrench should mostly work on the carburetor side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 04:24 pm:

I have an old 9/16 open end with the opening at right angle to the shank for the bolt head (carb side) and a thin wall box for the nut. Hang and start from the top and tighten from below. Clean and lube threads first so you can do most of it with your fingers. Really no problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 04:43 pm:

I suspect the key word here is alloy. This is not the stock cast iron #3062 manifold. That has plenty of room to use a socket. I wonder if this manifold is thick enough for you to take off a little material with a die grinder and make space for a socket without going all the way through the wall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy Traralgon Australia on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 05:22 pm:

Constantine, I think Steve is on the right track. If it is a new aluminium manifold they seem to be oversize everywhere even around where you are trying to get the nuts and bolts on. As he says, file or grind some material away until you can get a socket on. I had to grind some material off the top of a new alloy manifold so it would clear the exhaust manifold. What car are you working on?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 05:23 pm:

Well spotted Steve. If it a repro alloy manifold, all the more reason to check out the clearances.

My weapons of choice are two short, original ring spanners with nice thin heads. Both are US made. One is about 3.5" long and that is short enough to be able to swing it in the confines given.

I have another, made from an already modified ring spanner which came to me in a bunch of other tools for my swap meet site. Already butchered, so I relieved the ring end a bit more for clearance, and shortened up the length.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 05:33 pm:

I use a screwdriver to stop the nut from turning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 05:36 pm:

Fred, that's cheating.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Syverson on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 05:42 pm:

bolt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 05:44 pm:

Just installed mine this afternoon. Stock n/h and manifold. Nuts on the carb side, bolt head on the radiator side.
Got outer one pretty easy and inner one towards block by using open end and box wrenches, one hlolding the nut from up above and fitting my hand under the manifold and tightening the bolt from below a 1/8 turn and bite at a time.
Noticed that the nuts and bolts were castle cotter pin type. Are you kidding?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 06:05 pm:

As I recall when I mounted my original aluminum intake I could not use my carb wrench, I used what Ray shows, a socket head cap screw.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 06:26 pm:

Another reason I love the Stromberg OF carburetor......no nuts required. Mounting holes in the carburetor are threaded. Only need to use the bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 07:08 pm:

Thanks guys for all the replies and idea.

Yes, the intake on my 13 is a reproduction high volume aluminum (13's did originally have alloy intakes by the way).

Okay, I did some research to understand why I'm having this problem and found this:



Photo is by Chris Bamford from this post:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/173011.html?1291060350

In the post Chris says:


Outside diameter @ [point] B: Ford [original iron B casting] 1.200, Chaffins [alloy hi-vol] 1.480"

So there you have it, the high volume aluminum tube is wider in the area where the bolts attach, which the photo clearly shows.

I should have thought of this earlier but one way for me to solve this problem without having to buy anything new is to attach the carb to the manifold while both are off the car then just install the manifold. Without the engine block on one side and the chassis on the other there's no problem accessing the nuts with the small Ford spanner I have :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 08:43 pm:

I use the socket head cap screws to mount many other type carb's on stock cast iron manifold, just is easier to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 09:44 pm:

Fred you got it pal. Simplest/easest: flathead screwdriver to lock the nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phillip Maurici on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 10:10 pm:

I use a 9/16 - 1/4 inch drive socket. It is thin enough to fit on nut with aluminum manifold.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 09:30 am:

In my shed that used to be my shop there is a old tool box with a drawer full of sockets made everywhere but the us.
If I am in a spot,I get a socket the size I need and grind on it till it fits the spot. :-)
Worked on a bolt holding a Ford ignition pack on my 91 f150 and saved buying the special socket.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 09:40 am:

Ive also used ground down sockets and home bent wrenches to get to some nuts and bolts in tight places. Growing up on a farm and having to use what you have is kind of second nature I guess. Farm fix or not it worked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 09:40 am:

Don't you just love the way they ground off the bosses on that poor aluminum manifold? They should take more pride in their work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, September 03, 2017 - 10:20 pm:

I have installed them with the head toward the carburetor and used a universal joint socket on the manifold side with an extension. Use a box wrench on the carburetor side.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond-Forest, Va on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 04:34 am:

Ain't nothing like duct tape when all else fails.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 10:16 am:

The hardest chores for me on this task is removing the fuel line, carb linkage and choke wire. Then I spend a minute removing the front and rear manifold clamps and replacing them with the cut-down clamps allowing me to remove the intake while leaving the exhaust in place. Then it's simply benchwork for carb removal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 04:38 pm:

No one is talking about cotter pins, so I presume my castle nut set up on the carb bolts is not correct?

I'm going to remove my manifold to paint the block this winter, so attaching the carb to the manifold while it is off sounds like the way to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 04:41 pm:

Since I'm hijacking the thread anyway . . .

I've used the button head socket head cap screws on the WWII jeep machine gun trailer. After installation, put a little bondo in the allen hole and then sand and paint and from 10ft away, it looks like a rivet head. If you ever need to remove it, scratch the bondo out of the hole and use the allen wrench.

So if anyone wants to replace a rivet on a running board bracket or fender iron, the button head socket head cap screw might be an option.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 04:59 pm:

Constantine - I'm thinking that with the carb & manifold off of the engine, it might be possible to use button head/socket head cap screws of a slightly larger size, and either drill and thread the manifold or carburetor and tap one or the the other so as to preclude the necessity for nuts. Also, use star type lock washers with internal "teeth"(not sure of proper terminology here). If the slightly larger size button head/socket head cap screws have too large of a dia. head to clear the manifold, you could carefully grind the heads to a slightly smaller diameter so they will clear. That would certainly make future carburetor removal a lot easier in the future,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 06:51 pm:

Haven't had a T for long but I discovered that I could wedge a large, long handled flathead screwdriver between the bolt head and the manifold to keep it from turning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 07:02 pm:

I don't know about a high volume manifold, but on a regular manifold I put the bolts in through the manifold and hang the gasket on them. Put the throttle rod through the lever. I put my right thumb on the rod where it goes through the lever, my pointer finger on the bolt head closest to the block and middle finger on the other then slide the carb over the bolts with my left hand. Your thumb pressing down and fingers holding the bolts will hold it in place and you can run the nuts on with your left hand. Can have one off and on in no time if the bolt threads are clean.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 02:46 pm:

Harold, What you suggest may work but I think it's easier to just buy socket head cap screws or the accessory stand-out bolt and nut set as people above suggested. I'll be buying one of those when I have a chance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Stryker on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 03:33 pm:

I've done mine 3 times today trying to stop a leaky bowl gasket - used a 3/8 drive 1/2" socket with a universal joint on the side toward the generator and jammed the nut with a flathead screwdriver. Takes me 5 min to remove and 5 to replace now. Experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 06:04 am:

Terry, if a 1/2" socket fits your nuts, you must have undersized 5/16" bolts. That might work, but you carb flange may not be centred on the manifold.


Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Doris, AZ on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 07:18 pm:

An interesting alternative. Doesn’t look like it would be too hard to make.



(Message edited by AzBob on September 10, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 11:09 pm:

Modern thin head wrenchs also seen long head bolts
If your using new aluminum one little more recessing helps


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 10:39 am:

A week and a half of discussion later and surely the carb has been installed by now. How's that new manifold working for you Constantine?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 12:19 pm:

LOL Just weld it in place and use a gas wrench to remove!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 12:37 pm:

Did someone mention Duct Tape?

Be_Zero_Be


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