Modern Roller Bearing Thrush Washers

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Modern Roller Bearing Thrush Washers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bailey Rettig in SoCal on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 11:02 am:

I searched the forum, but can't find any info on Modern Roller Bearing Thrush Washers (Lang's Part #2528RB - $47.95 each). Anybody have any experience with these washers as opposed to the regular replacement brass thrust washers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 11:21 am:

The bronze ones will last you a lifetime. Too many bad stories about the roller style.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Coleman-Grand Marais MN/Detroit MI on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 11:26 am:

Jerry is correct.

On an earlier T I had to completely re-do the rear-end rebuild due to an early failure of the roller type.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 12:41 pm:

Been running a set in my Racer for over 20 + years - nearly 5000 miles of some aggressive driving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 01:07 pm:

Anyone ever have a bronze thrust fail?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bailey Rettig in SoCal on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 09:17 pm:

Jerry! Good question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 09:22 pm:

How about using a roller in a ruxtel failing considering the lighter oil?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 09:48 pm:

Steve, are yours set up so they are "normally loaded" rather than with end-play?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 09:55 pm:

Used a set of those tiny hardened needle bearing thrusts. Problem was you can't adjust them like you can by shaving the bronze thrust washers.

Had movement in and out after 1,000 miles and replaced them, the tiny needle surfaces were 'hammered' looking, and some corrosion of the hardened steel from moisture that just happens in the rear axle.

Stay with bronze from now on.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 10:30 pm:

Why can't you adjust them? Can you not surface grind the backside of the washers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 10:32 pm:

Can't beat the bronze and you only have half a pin holding the roller bearing in place. Not a gpood idea


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 10:34 pm:

Walter
Also you can buy different thickness of the hardened races. I've used them with zero problems in a powerful car. Probably not needed in a stock engined car


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 10:36 pm:

Thanks. I had an earlier question too, Les -- for successful service, are they set up normally loaded or with end play?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 11:01 pm:

All automatic transmissions are loaded with the roller bearings. Go a lot more miles that a T will ever see and I have never seen one go bad. The have a lot less drag than a rub bronze washer. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, September 05, 2017 - 11:33 pm:

Been over 20 years since I installed them so really can't recall but I do follow instructions well !!! I believe I relieved the washer & used both pins in the inner differential.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 11:05 am:

Scott,

Totally different environment and loading conditions. Plus, the transmissions were made with roller bearings as part of the overall design, they were not retrofitted items.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 11:35 am:

Cars that use tiny roller bearings in their transmissions, stick or automatic, also use lighter oil, ATF or engine oil.
Mercedes and Volvo, just to name two, use ATF in their manual transmissions. The T5 in my Aerostar too.
I would think even 75-90 would be a bit heavy for the rollers.
I sure wouldn't use ATF in aT diff. Or even motor oil.
I have taken T differentials apart that had the roller bearing thrusters, but usually they have damage caused by rollers.
Unless you are really good at setting up a differential and have the tooling to assure everything is square and even I would stay away from the rollers style.


I'd leave them up to good machinest like Les and other who have the equipment and special knowledge to do such things.
If I knew mine were Babbitt or rollers I'd be ordering some of them there solid teller metal ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 12:45 pm:

Too many little parts to get scattered and caught between gear teeth in the event of a failure. And for what? Are you really gonna see the reduction in drag? Would take some high tech equipment to measure any difference. Negligible in the grand scheme of things. And think about this, if that little needle is cylindrical (And I think they are), it wants to roll in a straight line, not around in a circle. Only one point on it's surface is actually rolling, the rest is skidding, as it is moving either faster or slower than the surface on which it is supposed to be rolling.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 02:50 pm:

Hal

Your description is correct, these needle bearing are tiny round things, and in my use, they appeared hammered, and were loosing 'roundness'. Seemed to me the round needles weren't revolving and developing flat sides.

Think the rear axle in the T is the wrong place for these commercially sourced tiny needle bearing sets.


Now if you could find NOS versions of these larger ball bearing thrust washers made back in the day, they may work as intended. :-)






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 03:24 pm:

Given that two of the most skilled mechanics/machinists here have had success with them, I'm banking that how they are set-up is critical to long life.

Nobody has yet answered my question about preload so I did some reading of bearing manufacturer's literature and yes, preload is desired to prevent the rollers from skidding when unloaded. This would be a source of flat spots. Once flat spots develop, it would all be downhill from there. One design recommendation is to employ the use of Belleville Washers to maintain contact under unloaded conditions. I'm also betting if there is endplay, when there is a sideways shift in a turn, impact loading is taking place by smacking the bearing into the washer, to say nothing of the use of knockoff wheel pullers, etc.

They work for some and not for others, so that tells me it must be the set-up, not so much the product.


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