Ford two speed drive shaft for the T?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Ford two speed drive shaft for the T?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Saturday, September 09, 2017 - 11:40 pm:

I went to the annual antique car show in History Park in San Jose today.
There was a guy there with a T pickup with an early Ruckstell, it said Hall Scot on it.
The new C cab was nearly finished and it had no flatbed on it yet.
He said it was one of the early Ruckstells that still had a neutral!!?
Is that true?
It also had a two speed auxiliary in the driveshaft just ahead of the Ruckstell. When I asked what make that was he said, "Ford", the real late T's had 'em.
That kind of bee es is why I don't go to most car shows and swap meets anymore.
Funny how some people know so little about the car they claim to be an authority on.
Obviously more BS?


.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 12:29 am:

Aaron, the early Ruxtell's carried the Hall Scott name, as I remember reading. I had a shifter and a TT rear axle that carried the Hall Scott name.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 12:39 am:

The two speed driveshaft is probably a Planator, it uses a simple gear arrangement that can halve the output speed of the input shaft. It only uses four gears and three are standard Ford gears. There is also sliding dog clutch, mine was bust and I had a couple made. I have a Planator in the Town Car


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 12:43 am:

I heard a story that the original Ruckstell was designed by Scott who sold the rights to Ruckstell. Then he realized there was money to be made and came up with the Planator towards the end of Model T production. I have no idea if this story has any truth or just BS.

(Message edited by Tony_bowker on September 10, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 02:02 am:

I have known for fifty years that the early Ruckstell had Hall Scott on them, but the question here is if they came with a neutral in them as they were built new.
I know when they get worn a lot a neutral shows up or they can be assembled to have neutral.
The box in question had Made in USA in raised letters cast on it.
It was NOT A PLANTOR..
I just don't believe it was a FORD made gearbox as the owner claimed.
I don't get why owners come up with krahp like that.
It certainly doesn't make me admire them or make me jelouse that it's not my car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 02:48 am:

Could it be a two speed from the early A ton truck? We have a doodle bug made from a wire wheeled AA, and it has a factory two speed behind the three speed transmission. It also has the worm gear rear axle, that's not a TT unit. I haven't worked on it enough to describe it to you, other than it's called the "dual high".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 08:59 am:

Way way back when we ran doodle bugs a friend had one AA that had a 3 speed with a Colombia two speed.The shift on the two speed was a rocking pedal but i do not remember the rear end?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 10:22 am:

I rebuilt a Ruckstell last year and several of the parts had Hall-Scott cast in them. I'm also rebuilding a Jumbo Planator right now. Interesting unit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 12:20 pm:

Aaron, a lot of hobbyists never read all the litterature, they just accept what the guy that sold them the car or part told them, and that's often distorted truths, misunderstandings or fabrications, so it doesn't have to be any wish to mislead, it's just what the owner believes to be truth. Often it's no use to try to correct him either - just nod and say well, well..

Ok, usually I try to warn about the risk to loose brakes with an accessory trans that has a neutral - accessory wheel brakes recommended.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 01:26 pm:

The only times I have seen Neutral in a Ruckstell, or Hall is when the shifter Fork was bent, or sprung.

If run to long that way, it will wear the Fork shifter ends.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 03:10 pm:

I am familiar with the AA Dual High. I have worked on one recently.
They are behind the transmission, the U joint is on the back of the dual high.
This rig did not have a dual high, the gearbox was at the very rear of the driveshaft, right in front and bolted to the front of the Ruckstell, or Hall Scott. It was not shaped like a cigar box, more like a loaf of bread.
Bud, all 3 speed AA trucks had a Dual High just behind the transmission. About six inches back, as I remember. I have not seen one since yesterday. They were shifted with your tight foot.
I said before, above, that the Dual high was bolted to the 3 speed. Actually it was back just a little.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 04:02 pm:

Aaron,My friends bug was a 30 but my AA was a 29 and only had a 3 speed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 04:09 pm:

Hi Aaron! I know that you know as much or more about these things as I do, so the following is mostly just recap for others sake.
These type transmissions were made for both model T and TT by quite a few companies, as well as individual units built or modified from other uses. They came in both two speed under/direct or direct/over, or three speed under/direct/over progressive shift versions. the most common makes are usually Moore, Universal, and Rocky mountain. Those three, I have had and/or used a few of each. The previously mentioned Planetor and the Lincoln are two others discussed fairly often on this forum, I have never had either one of those. Over the years, I have seen a few either ads or transmissions by other names also. Exactly how many were made and offered is anybody's guess.
Moore was all two speeds, mostly with underdrive. Rocky Mountain were nearly all three speed progressive shift. The Universal brand came in both, and made many variations, some with its own internal brake behind the transmission to eliminate the hazard of not having brakes with a missed shift.
With the exception of a few internal parts ("borrowed" by Planetor to keep their manufacturing costs down), none of these transmissions were made by Ford. As far as I know, Ford never approved of any of them either. Unlike the Ruckstell which was approved by Ford and officially sold by Ford dealers.

It should also be noted that similar units were made for other marques including Chevrolet, Dodge, and Overland. Similar units continued to be made for trucks (both heavy and light duty) well into the '60s (and actually to this day). Newer units also can be adapted to work in a model T. A Volvo overdrive unit was commonly adapted to many antique cars back in the '70s and '80s. Some of the Chevrolet units are a simple adaption because they used a similar torque tube and U-joint well into the '50s

It would be nice if owners took more interest in the details of their cars, and would give honest accurate answers to questions at shows. I suspect a lot of this is a continuation of that "lack of knowledge" mindset that was so common back when I was getting into this hobby. It was a sort of "I don't know, I don't care, it is my car and my ego trip so don't bother me" attitude. Even in the best hobby in the world, not everybody involved is perfect.
I also suspect that attitude fifty years ago is what drove me to seek the details for most of my life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 04:28 pm:

Wayne, thanks for that post.
I do not know as much about this auxiliary transmission subject as you and many who read this forum know.

Bud De Long, I have never seen a 3 speed AA without the dual high, but I do not know that much about AA trucks.
Also, could it be that the two trucks you speak of could have had the dual High boxes removed?
It may be that they came both ways. I will research that subject and find out.
There were probably custom trucks that had the dual high behind the four speed too. Why not?
.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brass TT on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 05:39 pm:

This is why you always need to carry a cellphone with a built in camera. Would solve all this conjecture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 05:50 pm:

Remember Ralph Ricks Langbein - that's another brand of a two speed accessory transmission in the drive shaft right in front of the rear axle. They came in both a car and a truck version.

lb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 02:49 am:

Ya brass TT, l was carrying an iPad but I didn't take a picture because I can't post it anyway.

There was also a closed cab model A pickup with a Weber carb and air conditioning.
The owner called it a phaeton???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 07:19 am:

Hall Scott was a big company in Berkeley, Calif. They made engines and all kinds of stuff. Ruckstell was sold to Eaton around 1925.


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