Early wishbone support

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Early wishbone support
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Finchum on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 08:23 pm:

The part from langs says from 1909 to 1918. My car is a 1919, but it has the upper wishbone on the axle.I read that Ford made the change to the lower wishbone in 1919, was this a mid year change? I think Ollie my car is an early 1919. Just wondering if the part would still work.model t pics


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 09:01 pm:

The encyclopedia shows April 14th. as a transition from above the axle to below the axle for wishbone placement though we know transitions did not always follow paperwork exactly.
To get to the encyclopedia go to the MTFCA home page, then to the encyclopedia page, then choose the year you want to look up. The encyclopedia is a huge source of information.
PS- 1919 was also a transition year for the.....
Ring gear and starter option.
Generator and electric lights option.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 09:15 pm:

As long as your car has the upper wishbone, the accessory sold by Lang's will work. It fastens to the underside of the axle at the perches.

In 1952, my dad purchase an unrestored 1920 Ford touring (September 1919 motor number) from the original owner. This car was complete and in very good original condition.

This car is still in the Twin Cities - it is equipped with an above the axle wishbone.

On a side note: I would not use the Lang's catalog as a restoration or judging guide.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 10:10 pm:

Carl,

Lang's and the other vendor's do a great job, but the dates in the catalogs are often rounded off some -- i.e. to whole years. And they don't say if it is model year or calendar year etc. But they are a helpful guide and are often based on some published information.

And depending on the source and in some cases when the source said something – you will get a slightly different answer.

For example as Michael pointed out above Apr 14, 1919 is listed as a transition date. But when you look at the information that is listed there you will note that the below the axle wishbone (front radius rod) was for use on the Ton Truck (TT) and NOT for use on the yet. See: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc19.htm and scroll down to Apr 14, 1919.

Where it has the following information from two different accessions (Acc) at the Benson Ford Archives (see: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc19.htm )

APR 14, 1919 Acc. 235, Box 39, #385, Ford Archives

"From this date two distinct designs of front radius rods, together with front spring perches, right and left, one on the Model T and the other on Model TT.

"The Model TT design will be assembled beneath the axle, instead of above the axle through the spring perch as heretofore.

"Although it would be possible to use the Model T design on the Model TT, we request this be resorted to only in case of a shortage serious enough to threaten loss of production."

APR 14, 1919 Acc. 78, #385, Ford Archives

New radius rod used at first on the TT chassis. Roller bearings at first on the TT and on the closed cars.
______
I have not seen any documentation on when the last of the above axle wishbones were used in the various USA plants. Nor have I seen documentation on when the first of the below the axle wishbones were used on the car production. In some cases old and new parts had five months that are documented when both styles were used. For example when the two piece valve chamber block was replaced by the one piece valve chamber engine block. The first new style engines with the one piece cover came out Nov 1, 1921 ref the engine logs listed on page 526 of Bruce McCalley’s “Model T Ford” and would also be in the engine serial number section of his CD. That would have been approximately 13 days from drawing to new part in production. From Nov 1, 1921 to Apr 3, 1922 both the old two piece and the new one piece valve chamber blocks were produced [same ref page 526 of Bruce McCalley's "Model T Ford." That was 5 months of overlap when new and old parts were still being produced. And of course the old style engines that were produced on Apr 2, 1922 would have been installed some time some place. And if the two piece engine block was shipped to a branch plant for assembly it could have been even later.

But for some reason – and I don’t understand this one – both Bruce McCalley as well as the “Model T Ford Club International Judging Guidelines 7th edition” have the below the axle wishbone listed as “typical” for the 1919 model year. (Ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1917-20H.htm where
Bruce has:

The front axle assembly was not spared in the sweeping changes. The radius rods were all new and now bolted to the front axle below the spring perches. The perches no longer had the hole where the earlier-design rods connected, and the mounting stud was made longer to accommodate the new radius rod assembly. The spindle arms were given a new “bend” to clear the radius rods, and the tie rod now was located above the radius rods.

And at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1919.htm where he has:

Front axle assembly modified; used new radius rod assembly that now fastened below the spring perches. Listed under “Major Model Year Features.”

And on that same page he has the model year listed: January 1919 to August 1919. And in that case we know at least half the model year for the cars used the above the axle wishbone according to the Apr 14, 1919 documents in the Ford Archives (Benson Ford Archives).

That same below the axle wishbone is describes as typical on page 6 of the 1919 year model section of the MTFCI Judging Guidelines 7th Edition.

And Erik’s 1919 is an example that would say the overlap period when the old style wishbone was used was into the 1920 model year.

We would welcome additional comments, documentation or fossil evidence on when the transition to the below the axle wishbone on the cars began and when it was completed.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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