Head gasket

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Head gasket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 09:31 pm:

I have a 1921 engine and pulled the head off. Prior thread is corn in the head. I've got that figured out. My head is off by .002 and .003 between the number 2 and 3 cylinders. I have a new copper gasket. I would like to see if it runs. Looking for comments.
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 09:38 pm:

Get the head milled. If it's a stock head, they can take off .005 easily. Then replace the head with the new copper gasket. Be sure to spray both sides of the copper head gasket with copper coat. If you don't get the head milled flat, you'll probably just blow another head gasket.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 10:04 pm:

Keith, it's off by .003. The engine was last run and parked before I bought it. Is .003 enough to be problematic? Other than that, I know of 0 history of the motor. It had compression and a "putt" before I pulled the head and found, corn. Rebuilt carb. and fuel is running clean.
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 10:21 pm:

Ok the head is off .003. How much is the top of the block off? Don't assume the block is flat. Get the head milled and eliminate one of the problems. If you use a milled straight edge to check the gap it needs to be longer than the distance between two cylinders. If you slide your straight edge back and forth along the length of the head and you can hear any "clicking" as it passes over the individual cylinder edges the head needs to be milled.
ymmv.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 11:31 pm:

I am sorry but sounds like a lot of bother for .002-.003 inches. The head is not rock solid it has some flex to it and the head gasket should be able to handle that much if not a little more. We are talking about a low compression low RPM engine here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 11:40 pm:

What kind of shape is the old gasket in? If it's decent it can probably be recoated and stuck on while you play with the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 11:41 pm:

Jack, a good copy on the block. I did not think of that. Mark, copy on what your saying also. Thank you for your thoughts, the pistons are not flat, but angled and then flat. A novice question, high compression pistons? They have a ford stamp and numbers that I can not read.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 11:42 pm:

if you're antsy to hear it run, then I'm with Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 11:43 pm:

Tim, what would I use to recoat the old gasket with?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, September 10, 2017 - 11:44 pm:

^ that is my kind of thinking. I have reused a head gasket from another T, still was going strong till the center main failed because the plastic timing gear failed and plugged the oil hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 01:00 am:

"the pistons are not flat, but angled and then flat." Common standard model T and replacement pistons for model Ts. Probably. They came that way both in cast iron or aluminum. Cast iron was used originally, aluminum are replacements. Cast iron replacements were made by many companies as well as Ford for many years after the model T production ended.
There were some model Ts that had something different. Earlier Ts had a cast iron piston with a slightly curved top. I haven't seen many of those, so I guess they are fairly rare. I do have one engine that has those.
Also, late in model T production, I think mostly if not totally in 1927, Ford used some sort of stamped steel piston. Since I don't play with the late Ts much, I have never even seen those up close, just a few photos.
High compression pistons are still a possibility. They came in several styles. Ones I had years ago were a higher rounded dome. Some I have seen were flat topped with a taller profile than the standard angled piston profile.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 05:03 am:

What ever you do. CLEAN THE BOLT HOLES IN THE BLOCK. All the way to the bottom. And remember, Big hole to the back. Thanks, Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 05:35 pm:

Much good info in the posts above. I miss things often so I'd suggest reading all again. :-)
Bob, I'm afraid I'm with some others here. Slap that little turkey together and see what happens.
Did you pull some valves and look at the valves and seats? The sealing surfaces don't have to be perfect to run but should be half aXXed. :-)
If the valves and seats look like yuck/rust, you can always think outside the box to "fix" things up for the time being.
These guys like their Copper Coat (spray?) for that gasket. Never tried it but it makes sense. Fresh gasket? Cool. :-)
In the past, I never had nothin'. Felt I couldn't afford a new gasket and made one for the 24 Runabout many years ago.
Worked perfect but I'm used to making gaskets for engines that don't have anything available.
Now I'm just cheap and reused the gasket on the 25 TT to get it running again last fall. Works good. :-)
The valves are freshly ground and the seats are just half aXXed but it runs like a good dream.
You did get a "putt" out of yours? Good sign. :-)

Perhaps set all four cylinders half up/half down (if the valves are OK), run a trail of oil around those angled edges of the pistons, put the head on it, snug the bolts down, clamp the rad hose and make ready. Try again tomorrow.

Note: If I'm blabbering on and missed the boat on some detail, please disregard this post. :-)
Keep us in the loop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 08:09 pm:

When I was a kid in the 50's the old guys would soak the gasket in the rainbarrel, then put it back on. Dave in Bellingham,WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 08:16 pm:

I got it running and it smoked like hxxx. Determined it had weak sparks on 2 of the autolites so went and purchased Champion 25's at Napa. Runs pretty good but still smoked out the garage. I'll check compression next. Also, I was unable to get a neutral, looks like it's time too learn about band adjusting.
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 10:16 pm:

And that bolt that pushes against the control shaft/emergency brake lever cam.
Give it a turn perhaps to open that main clutch a trifle more when in neutral. :-) Try again.
If dormant for a long time, that main clutch may be resistant to letting go. Give him a little time.
Bob, wait with the bands for a bit, perhaps. Remember, all they do is Low, Reverse and Brakes yet they need to be able to be up to the task.
My 24 leaves a massive cloud wherever he goes! :-)
Bah, It smokes some? It's getting oil.


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