Observations & Opinions needed concerning early brass headlights

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Observations & Opinions needed concerning early brass headlights
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 01:15 am:

Attached are several pictures for your review and opinions.
The first picture is a known early lamp body I'm working on, the 2nd picture is a known reproduction and the 3rd is an unknown pedigree but supposedly documented on the vehicle at least 70 years ago through pictures when bought from the 1st owner. Further information, I've seen several lamps with the same earmarks as picture 3, note the rounded door as compared to picture 2. The lamp in picture 1 also had the rounded door based on what was left of the door of the lamp but not a shallow end cap as can be seen in the change in patina at the back of the body. In addition both name plates on lamp 1 and 3 appear to be stamped and not engraved and both are heavier than the know reproduction lamp. Now the questions 1- were both style name plates used by E&J? 2- if yes which came 1st and time frame, if no which is correct? 3 - though I have personally seen this model number lamp with both type end caps is there only one which is correct? Which one is it. Last but not least, on the side of the smoke bonnets there are vent holes. Some bonnets have a fancy raised embossing around the hole and on others, just a simple round hole with no embossing so which is correct or are they both correct?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 11:00 pm:

Anyone?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Bond on Monday, September 11, 2017 - 11:15 pm:

Not an expert, just a collector, but it's my understanding the engraved name plate is indicative of a repro. Not sure what you mean by "end cap" so some additional photos may be needed to clarify.
Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Bond on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 11:33 pm:

192283605348 is an ebay item you should have a look at. It is an unrestored original E and J lamp. here are several pictures on the listing that show an embossed name plate rather than engraved. It shows also the rear part of the lamp. I believe yours is missing the rear "can" at the backside. The unrestored lamp also shows that the vent holes on the sides of the bonnet are not just stamped holes.
Looking at that old unrestored lamp should give you some answers. Let me know if you have problems finding the listing and I'll try to attach a couple of photos that I've saved to my computer.
Terry
Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 11:49 pm:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-BRASS-CAR-LIGHT-CARBIDE-STEAMPUNK-HUPMOBILE-Edmu nd-Jones-E-J-model-366/192283605348?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao %3D2%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3Df56ec4ac453c456d9f2ee8f7c4ad7f7d%26pid%3D100623%26rk %3D5%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D192283662094&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 05:23 am:

That lamp is a different, earlier model offered by E&J. It is stamped 366 with no Ford on it because I believe it wasn't available for the Model T but the earlier lettered cars and non-Fords. It's also the wrong name plate; the first and third photos John posted have the large Ford logo whereas the one on ebay has the fancy E&J script like his second and known reproduction photo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Mino, near Porterville on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 07:29 am:

466-1

466-2

466-3

466-4

466-5

466-6

Images are of original unrestored headlights. BOTH styles of nameplates were used. I believe the stylized plates may have been used on the earlier production 466; have no idea when the change was made. It is possible both were used concurrently. The lamps pictured in the final three images above are believed original to a June, 1910 car.

The stylized nameplate seems to have been a universal item, stamped with the particular model number. I've encountered these on 366, 466, 376 and 377 headlights.

The backs on the 366 and 466 are about 1 1/8" deep. Your lamp with the shorter back and rounded door appears to be "restored" using Jno Brown 19 parts. The Brown back is about 1/2" deep.

The only E & J headlight I've encountered which had a rounded door was the 577 and it is a completely different animal. No doubt there may have been others, but this would be quite unusual on a Model 466.

As noted in an earlier post, the 366 was a universal lamp. I believe Model T number one was equipped with these as the shipping record indicates E & J lamps but the images of that car suggest a smaller door / jamb than the 466.





(Message edited by Fordfarm on September 13, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 12:36 pm:

Phil,

The attached add is from a 1910 automobile trade magazine.



It shows the third number correlates to the mirror diameter with the first two numbers indicating the "model" size of the headlight bucket. The E&J Model 36's (#365 & 366) take a 5 or 6 inch Mangin mirror and we know the prop size is 7 inches. The 37X's, 6 or 7 inch mirror, prop 8 inches and so on.

Searchlights are four digit with the "0" denoting searchlight and the first three numbers denoting bucket and mirror size. Some of these were probably used on Models N, R and S.

It would seem that these lamps were probably "E&J" logo stamped with the appropriate "model" size, 365, 387 and so on.

My questions:

Are all examples you have seen of the "3XX" and "3XXX" lamps E&J logo stamped?

Are all "4XX", "5XX", "blank66" and "666" lamps "branded" for a particular automobile manufacturer, such as Ford, Brush, etc?

Thanks,

Ken in Texas


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