Transmission drum or band issue?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Transmission drum or band issue?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 06:42 pm:

I got the the engine running, put a couple of 2x4s across the frame and used a bucket for a seat. I was unable to get an actual neutral when it was up on blocks, but couldn't help myself. Got a rolling start on a straight away and off on Mr. Toads wild ride. It ran in high gear unless drive pedal was depressed, regardless of the position of the hand lever.

The brake and dive drum have at least a 1/4" play forward and aft. I'm wondering if I'll need to dismantle the transmission to resolve the issue.
This is a 1921 rolling chassis with a truck load of sheet that I got last week, with unknown history.
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 09:36 pm:

Remove teh cover in the hogs head. You will see fingers (3) that are used to push the spring back that puts pressure on the clutch pack so you achieve a T "neutral". There is a screw and cotter pin in each finger for adjustment. Turn each screw in 1/2 turn in and see if that helps. Be sure not to drop a cotter pin. I tie them with dental floss through the eye when I remove and install them. Don't re-use a cotter pin here, if a leg breaks off it could do some damage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 09:50 pm:

Sounds like you have more than an adjustment problem, 1/4" float on the drums would suggest that someone has left out the 3 thrust washers behind the clutch disc drum, that allows a clutch plate to fall and jam up the works, end result is no neutral.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 11:38 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 11:41 am:

I finally sorted out the picture posting.
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 12:34 pm:

I agree that " is an awful lot of movement. Frank's suggestion of missing washers is one possibility. Another possible cause is wear in the face of the brake drum. That's what jammed my transmission in gear. Either way, it sounds like time to get the transmission book and dig in.


Wear in the face of the drum was .041", which allowed the spacer to get jammed behind the clutch drum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 10:48 am:

Steve, I have the book and will read it. I have 3 questions.
1. The clutch lever has 3/8" side to side play, its alot more than in my other T. What should it be?
2. The transmission drive plate screws are loose, but the wires are in place. Maybe the problem?
3. To pull engine or just the top of the Hogshead?
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 06:30 pm:

From the driven gear to the drive plate, there is 3/8" movement back and forth for the whole unit when the drive pedal is depressed. There is no back and forward movement on the reverse drum. Frank thought maybe missing thrust washers.
Any other thoughts?
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Sunday, September 17, 2017 - 04:49 pm:

Any other thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Anyone???
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 05:40 am:

I got into one a few years back that had a early narrow brake drum in a 26-27 transmission, had about that much slop. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph A. Stearns on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 08:52 am:

Robert, I would recommend pulling the entire engine/ transmission out. Then you can do a complete inspection of all areas and address issues that need attention. Good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 11:27 am:

1 Side to side play should be limited by the #3400 clutch release ring. It's not a critical fit down to thousandths, but 3/8" seems like a lot. You need the hogshead off to see what's going on there.

2 Yes, loose drive plate screws are a problem. I don't know if that's the reason for your trouble, but they need to be tight. Again, hogshead off.

3 I suppose theoretically your problem could be something you can fix just with the hogshead off, but if it's the thrust washers Frank mentioned, or the drum wear I found, you need the engine out, nose down, and oil pan off. While you have it that way, you might as well go through the whole transmission and be sure everything in there is up to snuff.

Some of these guys who have done dozens of transmissions have everything memorized, but lacking that kind of experience, especially the first time, put the small parts in little plastic bags, labeled (maybe even with part numbers), so when you start reassembly you'll know what goes where.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 12:28 pm:

Steve: I saw the drum movement back and forth and that did not look good! The cap screw were loose and the clutch shaft side to side play looked a bit to much, and I wondered if the clutch fork could be worn. For Bob I think pull the engine and go thru the tranny from the 4th main to the triple gears.. This give him a better idea as to what he will do to improve the shifting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 09:32 am:

After a wet and dry compression check, looking for possible engine issues, I'll pull the engine and take apart the transmission. I thought I read somewhere that an experienced person could rebuild one in 30 minutes. Ill shoot for 30 days. I'm actually looking forward with learning more about the darn thing and will post what I find. A good copy on Steves advise about bagging and tagging, followed up with pictures.
Thanks to all who responded.
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Bente on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 10:17 am:

The only thing found after taking apart the tranny that was obvious was a bent and worn transmission clutch disc drum set screw. Hopefully that solves the problem. When is it necessary to replace clutch disc's? some discoloration, but smooth otherwise.
r/s Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Friday, September 22, 2017 - 11:04 am:

Robert, as long as the discs are not cracked, badly worn or pitted they are fine to reuse. The discoloration does not cause any problems.

Stephen


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