Painting question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Painting question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 06:48 pm:

I'm seriously thinking about painting all my sheet metal on the 1910 T instead of paying a body shop. There are no dents, dings or rust to contend with so it's pretty much sand blast, prime and paint. However, even though you can get some decent results from rattle cans, I'm not going to wear out my forefinger like that. I'd like to purchase a cheap sprayer and compressor, but I'm not sure what size compressor I'd need. Any suggestions from past experiences would be greatly appreciated! By the way, I'm not looking to do a Stynoski paint job, but one that looks really nice and semi-professional. Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 06:57 pm:

Research: CFM rating, air temperature, and moisture filter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 07:17 pm:

Bill; I just sent you a PM with my cell. I just painted my '11 myself and that's the 3rd T I've painted... I've learned a lot through the process. There are definitely places you can save $, others that you will regret doing so.

You can definitely save money doing it yourself. You're going to spend a lot of $ on paint materials, at least if you use automotive paint, and you don't want to waste that by having to redo the job. My point is there are definitely places to economize, and others that will cost you a lot more money in the long run.

One of the absolute most important things you need is clean, dry air. A lot of the less expensive guns available today will do a good job, but if you have dirt or moisture in the air it will show in your paint, and the darker the color the more visible it will be. Compressors generate heat when they run and that causes condensation in the air lines. The air has to cool enough for the moisture particles to become large enough for your filter to trap them. A larger two stage compressor will cycle less and run cooler than a small compressor, and having long, black iron pipe on the output of the compressor before your filter will allow the air to cool more. This will absolutely show in your results. I started with a smaller portable compressor, then upgraded to a 60 gallon single stage, then two years ago went to a 60 gallon two stage; that was some of the best money I have spent on my shop, period. I no longer have moisture issues with my bead blaster and the paint job I just shot on my '11 looks as good up close as it does in pictures.
If you go to zoro.com and sign up for their emails they frequently have 20-25% discount coupons. Their shipping is free on orders over $50. When I bought my compressor I ordered it from them I used a 25% coupon on the compressor and an air filter, and they delivered to my house with a lift gate at no extra charge. I bought a Speedaire (Grainger's house brand) and was right at about $1k for the compressor; about $400-500 less than from Grainger, with the coupon. Earlier this year I bought a Devilbis Finishline 4 HVLP gravity feed for under $200; it comes with 3 needles and tips, and it does a really great job for that price point.

There are a ton of paint products out there. I used Nason Ful-Cryl single stage acrylic enamel. I used 4 quarts for the body, fenders, running boards, etc, and one quart for the wood wheels. Based on recommendations of others I shot a black sealer underneath the finish coat, and it made a heck of a difference!! Well worth the cost of the sealer, it made the final color deeper and more uniform, and probably saved one coat coat of finish paint overall. I used this instead of base / clear because it was less expensive and I felt the finish was more appropriate for a T.

The other thing you need is a clean place to paint, and if it is indoors ventilate it. I have friends who paint outside; they shoot early in the day before it gets breezy, and they spray everything down with water before to keep the dust down. I have to paint indoors, so this time I built a paint booth in my garage and had really good ventilation.

Todays paints use catalysts and they are nasty!!!! If you shoot outside you can get away with just a respirator. If you shoot inside you really need supplied air. I've shot inside with a respirator and it is not adequate, that's why I just bought a supplied air system.

Anyway, I PM'd you my cell#. Feel free to call and I'll pass on what I've learned from both my experiences and from some very helpful people on this forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 07:48 pm:

Gary, Great advise on painting.

When you wrote, "they shoot early in the day before it gets breezy, and they spray everything down with water before to keep the dust down", I assume you did not mean they spray the car parts with water that are just getting ready to be painted! :-)

99% would know exactly what you mean but a first timer to painting may not. Sorry, my brain interprets in a odd manner....
So says my wife. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 07:57 pm:

Gary is spot on. It might make more sense for you to do the body work and pay someone to spray it. The money needed to get good results can be about the same as hiring it done. And the expense of good paint, epoxy primer and high build not to mention clear coat, cut and polish creams, sand paper etc. can add up quickly. Plus..if you aren't happy with the results you'll have someone else to blame~


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 08:06 pm:

Hmmmmm. Lots to think about here, and great advice. I'll be giving you a call sometime this weekend, Gary!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Shore on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 08:57 pm:

If you are going to sand blast, be careful it is very easy to warp sheet metal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 09:38 pm:

Sounds good Bill. I painted my '11 last month, so everything is fresh in my mind.

You won't save much (or any) money doing it yourself the first time when you have to tool up, but you're ahead of the game going forward and there is a LOT of satisfaction being able to say you did it yourself, especially on a good looking paint job!! And there WILL be a 'next time', even if it's painting ( or repainting) small parts. The gloss and durability you can get with a catalyzed two part paint is night and day from a rattle can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Eyre on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 09:49 pm:

Go for it! How you learn is by doing it. I prefer gravity feed guns and disposable cups now as it will save with clean up. If you don't like it just sand and respray. I think paint with hardner is the only way to go also. You have my number call any time if you have questions. I'm a 25 year veteran of the auto spray paint World and I can give you some pointer for sure. Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 11:11 pm:

I agree with the gravity feed and disposable liners. I use 3M PPS and have adapters on all of my guns, so the same cups and liners are interchangeable. It makes both mixing and cleanup a lot easier!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 11:56 pm:

Net result is it might end up looking like a factory paint job, runs and all. Instead of a too shinny over done Model T. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Hughes, Raymond, NE on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 01:31 am:

Anyone have any experience / opinions on a turbine HVLP setup?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By william m leahy on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 07:50 am:

coupe I agree with Gary on the use of the 3M PPS system. It makes cleanup relatively easy. It also allows painting from any angle because the disposable cup collapses as the paint is consumed.I also use a supplied air system. The coupe was painted with acrylic enamel with a hardener which has toxic properties. I painted it inside and covered the floor with a new heavy plastic sheet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 10:55 am:

Don't even think of sandblasting your body, unless you want it ruined!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Stryker on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 11:07 am:

Anyone try the Duplicolor lacquer you can get at the parts stores? Or the Rustoleum auto lacquer? The good thing about them is you can get a nice paint job in your driveway and they are cheap. The down side is you are limited to the few colors they have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 11:12 am:

Bill I agree with Larry on the sandblasting of the sheet metal / body. You will warp the metal. On black car parts like doors I have use soda blasting but still saw some waves post blasting. I'm willing to admit that my ability to screw things up may have contributed to the problem. By the way the picture you sent looks fantastic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 11:34 am:

Proper blasting involves using plastic media, not sand. It is done by a competent blaster that understands the angle needed to avoid heat build up. No warping if done correctly. It is also not cheap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 12:35 pm:

No one uses a brush ?!?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 12:58 pm:

I have painted a LOT of cars and quite a few Railroad Locomotives. Given some ability, and experience, one can do a concourse paint job on their own. Mostly because you aren't paying for time, and time is what it takes. You can take time to pay attention to small things that a paint shop doesn't have time to do.
First important thing: Your health!!! DO provide adequate protection from those paint chemicals. A disposable tyvek suit is cheap and great insurance, head sock, eye protection and proper respirator or air supply; and get used to wearing gloves.
Equipment: that's been well-covered in this thread. Becoming familiar with your equipment is important, you'll learn it's limitations and how to work around them. Steve H. asked about turbine systems. When I painted Locomotives, that's what I used. Took some getting used to, but the savings in paint consumption over "high pressure" air systems was amazing--the system was paid for in one Locomotive paint job. Automobiles use a LOT less paint, so it would take a few cars to reach pay-back point. It also cut down on over-spray, so keeping the area clean was simpler.
I have done great paint jobs outside, with the "water down the area, start in the early morning with no wind or bugs." At one car show no one would believe it was painted in a guy's back yard, under his carport.
Granted, having done a lot of cars, I knew the paint product I was using pretty well, and sometimes I was just lucky! I haven't painted now for about 10 years, and I imagine I'll have to re-learn stuff when I get back to finishing my cars!
Oh, one other thing: plan your paint pattern ahead of time, paint doesn't spray around corners; it's easy to leave holidays if you're not careful. Plant where you'll start and stop painting to avoid dry spray on the already-painted area. On Locomotives this was pretty easy, as they are VERY boxy, and there was usually a 90 degree corner to make the starting & stopping point simple. (You spray a little around the start of the corner so when you get back to it, you just spray the surface, and the corner itself has coverage already). With an HVLP system, very little overspray finds it's way around the corner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 03:10 pm:

HVLP Fuji Turbine sprayer system. No compressor, no water, no pressure regulations, etc. Wife painted a WWII jeep lusterless OD green and the 1915 Model T War Wagon OD gren as well. Primered both cars and parts as well. Came out great. Outdors on our driveway and front lawn with drop cloths down.

Start with frame or underside of parts to get a feel for the spray distance and viscosity of the paint and go for it.

Of both our frame off restorations, I'm produest of the fact that we painted them both outselves. (well, my wife did. You don't want me painting)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 04:05 pm:

Robert, how do U keep the gnats and bugs away in Georgia?? I remember standing at attention, at Bainbridge, as a cadet and not being able to keep the gnats from crawling in my ears and up my nose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 04:22 pm:

Anyone can blast sheet metal correctly if they are PATIENT and have the correct set-up. Plastic and soda have their place but won't take off rust. Sand is good but more difficult to find now due to the silicosis lawsuits. Coal slag, sometimes known as "black beauty", is a good substitute, economical, and you can get two times through the machine with it. In a pressure fed machine: 1/4" tip, 30-35 psi., about 100 lbs. per hour consumption, keep your distance, hit it at an angle, move fast, and expect to make multiple passes to get it all clean. Trying to do it in one pass is generally what kills stuff. Yes, there are other tricks for wide expanses that are dead flat with no support, but it is doable in most cases.

Years ago I started doing it myself because you'll get blasters that use the logic, "It was going to cost a fortune to do it right, so I did it faster and warped it for you".

(Message edited by Wmh on September 16, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Sunday, September 17, 2017 - 01:09 pm:

I would avoid sand blasting if at all possible because of the problems Walter stated, particularly with an early, rare body. That said if you know someone that truly knows how to handle it correctly and will do it themselves (not have the 'cheap labor' do it) you may be OK.

Metal can be dipped if there is a place near you that does that, but I wouldn't do that with anything that contains wood.

Does the body have paint on it now, or is it rusted? If it has good, well adhered paint on it now it doesn't all need to be stripped, but it does need to be prepped right. That isn't difficult but it takes time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland, Lambsburg Va on Sunday, September 17, 2017 - 01:46 pm:

several companys make these wet sand blasting attachments you use with your pressure washer ,I have a freind thats a pro restorer and uses theses.no warping
https://www.amazon.com/MTM-Hydro-16-0117-Industrial-Blast/dp/B004GQLDR8/ref=sr_1 _1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505670050&sr=8-1&keywords=wet+sandblaster+kit#customerReviews


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 - 03:41 pm:

I don't like the fact that, in addition to the dangers of warping the metal, the sandblasting medium roughens the metal so much that the surface feels like sandpaper. So anytime I remove paint, and rust, in preparation for painting, I take a little more time and use paint remover and muriatic acid. That way, the metal panels retain the smooth finish they had the day they were formed. Jim Patrick

PS. Please don't hijack this thread into a discussion of the dangers of muriatic acid. I have been using it to remove rust for 47 years and have always had excellent results with not one mishap.


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