Please help me with my confusion.
I see parts for sale "Early T" and some for "Late T's". I understand the "Improved T".
What is the time frame for the Early T's and Late T's?
I would assume that at some point in the middle they are just T's?
I would guess that Late would be anything from the Improved Ford 26/27s But it could also mean anything after the Brass Era.
Everybody has their own idea. I think you'll have to call the seller for what you are interested in.
With a production run of over 15 million units, "early" usually means brass Ts, since "only" a million and a half or so we're built through 1916.
By 1920, some five million were built, and the 10 millionth T rolled off the assembly line with a lot of fanfare in 1924, so I guess you'd say most of the "black" Ts are "just Ts" although the detail changes year by year makes for a study as fascinating as they are for the brass cars. I don't think there's much confusion that "late" would usually mean the '26 & '27 "improved" Ts, though arguably the last 5 million surely are the "latest" Ts.
To me, 1909-1915 (and 1915 is being generous)is what I call "early."
1917-1925 is what I call "late," also referred to as "black era."
1926-1927 is "Improved."
: ^ )
I am with Keith on this, well almost, I would say 1914 back will allowances for early 15 touring's with 14 bodies.
For me it's this way.
09-16. Brass era. Early
17-25 Black era
And a whole lot of details in between!
Early parts are those I already have.
Late parts are the ones I need and have to order.
I agree with Keith and John, Brass is early, black is late, and 26-27 is improved ....
It depends on ones perspective.
Until three months ago early was 09-15, late 16-25 and improved 26-27.
That all changed in August when I bought the November 1909 Model T Touring. Now early is serial number 1-2500, typical is s/n 2501-35000 and everything else later.
Iím sure once the 09 is running, my perspective will restored.
(Message edited by Tony_bowker on September 24, 2017)
I match Keith on this. I grew up around 15's but consider them pushing it for early.... the tail end of it, but since the HCCA is pre '16 I include them.... otherwise it would be 'gas light ' cars. 17-19 is still non starter, so to me it's sort of in between.... definitely not early. Late for me goes until 'improved'.
I like your refinement category of "gas light" cars.
Of course it only counts if the headlamps actually run on acetylene gas...
: ^ )
I enjoy this thread. It is silly. Early and late, as words, are totally relative terms. I see ads often on eBad that list "early model T part". It turns out to be a '26/'27 piece. From the sellers point of view, it is early. To him, anything made before he was born, is early.
I use the words differently depending on the specific discussion. I often use "early brass" and "late brass" to differentiate '09s/'10s/'11s from '13s through '16s. I haven't decided where '12 fits best.
For me, '17/'18 still fall into the early (non-brass) category because they still have many early characteristics. '19, I don't know. 1920 or later are all late Ts. The "improved" cars are just that. The improved model Ts.
This is one where there is no real right and wrong. Depends on the individual. Depends on the discussion. Even depends on a given day or mood. And can really depend on the individual car.
I meant to add, no intention of offending anyone here. I totally enjoy reading what different individuals consider "early", or "late". So I added mine. And hope to see many more.
Don't let the "early" '23 and "late" '23 confuse you either. An "early" '23 is a low radiator car. A "late" '23 is a '24, a high radiator car. Dave
Early is something you must crank with gas lights. This typically corosponds with HCCA being a pre 16 car. There are late parts that can be fudged into early parts like a non starter block. Just as there can be early cars with a fudged late engine, starter.
Be careful here guys! You have early '26s, and late '26s too.
Early cars were built in the morning and late cars were built in the evening.
Tom S, Now, THAT is funny!
Yup ! About as funny as the mental image I get of "cranking with a gas-light"