Just found this on MSN:
Sounds like califunny thinking! Good luck farming or hauling all that produce with a fisher price battery truck.
Yep just some more government control and micromanagement over there in California, pretty soon they'll tell us what color and brand of vehicle we have to buy too, gets a bit ridiculous!
Brown as Mao. He doesn't "get it" ? China can do stuff like this because it's essentially a monolithic dictatorship . . . kinda like California ? Oh . . . now I get it.
It is evident that he will not get customers for his high speed railroad unless he outlaws gas cars. I don't think there are any electric cars which will travel the length of the state without re- charging.
Evidently the majority of Californians like this because even though I don't vote for them, the perpetrators of this kind of thinking keep getting re-elected.
Over regulation of everything is a issue in our country. Someone is getting paid if they want to ban gasoline engines. Best country in the world but we have to much big government.
Can't see this happening. Ole Moonbeam would be tarred and feathered by the hot rod guys. Then the common folks would show up with the pitchforks and flaming clubs to finish the deal. Even him wouldn't be that dumb.
Come on now leave California alone, lauf'n out loud".
If all those bozo's from California flying around the world in their private jets, those film moguls spewing toxic venom and Al Gore's hypocritically burning more energy than a small town you could cure pollution in a week. Oh, ya! Al Gore does not live in California. Ah! He ought too!
Wait a minute! Should not say anything! It will probably be on the ballot here in Massachusetts.
Sorry, could not help myself. Bad day. Been basically swimming in home heating oil all day, more tomorrow. Not good!
I see a refried been powered vehicle coming soon. Citizens in the state will have to purchase their own. Illegals will get theirs for free along with their free health care. I love California government so much, that's why I'm moving in two years.
Mark, please come to Massachusetts as you will feel like you never left home. Never mind!
Yep. Such a beautiful state and a bunch of morons running things. Brown is a mental midget as well as the rest of his crownies. Some day I will take my T and head for somewhere that has a decent government ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if I can find one.
I wish I could afford to leave. But I have too much junk I would need to move.
Yeah Wayne I know what you mean. Sometimes I think of liquidating everything , jump in the motor home , snap off the rear view mirror and fallow my nose.
I'm hoping to get around this by using Ethanol.
I actually thought the legislation is more stringent. I was under the impression that California is supposed to be a zero carbon state by 2040.
"...somewhere that has a decent government ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if I can find one."
An old saying is that no man's life and property are safe while the legislature is in session. I believe that applies in all jurisdictions.
Steve, that's why we had a much better life when we had a part-time legislature!
Wayne, I too, have the same problem--almost fixed by the Wall fire earlier this year!
That would be the third time california has tried this. Back in the 60s it was to prevent the coming ice age, then global warming, now it's climate change. See a pattern? They don't! Wasn't all this technology supposed to make our lives simpler, eliminate paper and shouldn't we be driving flying cars by now? Instead there building cars that drive themselves. So we don't have to. Is it possible they just have never met a Model T before & have no idea. Boy did I go off the rails.
David D, I wouldn't wish losing everything that way onto anybody. Except maybe myself. (Sorry, there is an inside joke there that I cannot tell even you about.)
LOL following chinas lead. In china the electric cars are powered by coal fired power stations. Those coal stations are not exactly the cleanest 0 emission thing thing ever. But that's what they want it it? Where does california get it's power? It better be solar, because nuclear isn't a long term option. At the rate some people use it, it'll be gone before oil is, probably.
Kep, Nice to see you here again!
Yes, that is one of the number one reasons why I have been opposed to electric cars as primary transportation for the masses. An engineering study about thirty years ago, found that wind power systems (in most cases) consumed MORE energy to manufacture, transport, install, and maintain, than they will produce in the lifetime of the generation system. Yeah. That works well.
Another study showed that gasoline powered transportation was more than 65 percent power efficient, while electric powered transportation was less than 50 percent power efficient.
The ecological pollution from billions of dead batteries will eventually become a huge disaster to the environment.
"Just because the dang thing ain't got a tailpipe to suck on? Doesn't mean it don't cause pollution!"
There are a lot of things we as a society and as individuals do need to do to improve how we treat our environment. Banning the internal combustion engine is NOT one of them.
I remember when I was a kid and my parents took me to down town LA to see the holiday displays in the big department stores...in those days the street cars ran up and down all the streets and the wires overhead crisscrossed where everywhere...I remember one thing over everything else from back then...the crackling sound of the streetcars as they passed and the smell of O-zone coming for the streetcar contact to cable as they went by...makes me wonder if you have an entire rolling fleet of electric cars, will they also put out O-zone? Right now it's not noticeable, because there are so few, but when they number in the thousands or tens of thousands (this is LA after all) what then?
Electric cars aren't efficient, nor have the range to be of much good here in Califunny...which actually plays into one of Gov. Moonbeam's pet wet dreams...to break up suburbia, into small village like communities and get people to work within those communities so nobody would have to travel great distances to and from work. Which of course would work out just dandy for an electric car...the other headache is the charging stations...how and where do you put them? Old Moonbeam has no idea on that, other than that phony baloney "fuel cell" charging stations up and down the coats idea...not going to happen.
Until they can produce one of those silly contraptions that will have a travel distance of 300 miles radius under any conditions...the internal combustion engine is quite safe from being done away with. Besides, Moonbeam isn't going to run again, and nobody is going to vote for Tony Vilar, he was a twit when he was mayor of LA and from recent interviews he hasn't changed all that much (I remember his one memorable speech when speaking of the Mexicans who are illegal and work in LA..."we clean your toilets"! That's when John and Ken from KFI got everybody to send him toilet brushes...he got something like 3 gross of them, sent to his office)...and he hasn't improved with age either...he's still a twit.
A ban on Internal Revenue Service, now there is an idea.
Didn't CA have a Hydrogen fleet in civilian use years ago? (Honda ?) I seem to remember it doing quite well & the people involved were very satisfied. Just up and disappeared like GM's EV-1 fleet.
Maybe some still remember the Hindenburg.
And some don't:
They should ban volcanos, manufacturing, and fires. These produce allot of gases.
Let me stir the pot a little... The grammatical errors in that story gave me a headache. No space between words, punctuation missing, etc. Oh I forgot this is Bloomberg Media, that explains everything!
This is interesting---
A second class of internal combustion engines use continuous combustion: gas turbines, jet engines and most rocket engines, each of which are internal combustion engines on the same principle as previously described. Firearms are also a form of internal combustion engine.
So no airports, no trains, no ships, no trip to Mars for the winter....well make certain when you ban internal combustion motors/engines you cover the whole spectrum.....
Shame there is no science any more.
This is just the kind of thing the libtards that run this state think they can do. They might just as well mandate the sun not rise tomorrow. Moonbeam and his collection of idiots probably believe they could do it. Internal combustion is far from finished here, but they will do everything in the power they really do have to prevent anyone from enjoying it like we do when we drive our old cars. I would live somewhere else if everything and everybody I love wasn't here.
When I started reading this story something funny happened to me. I happened to say the name, "Jerry Brown", out loud and one of my little dogs, Eve, came running down the hall and jumped up into my lap. Eve knows that when the words, "Jerry Brown" are spoken, no good can come from it. It is to bad that the voters of California never figured out that fact. Such is life here in Wack-A-Fornia !
I do love this forum. I find that I am not the "only one"
The (former) lone voice in the wilderness.
I remember a phrase that I like and believe: "90% of what you worry about never happens." As to California - Who cares?
Too true, John C, way too true. But I have been living here since I was five months old, far too young to fight the decision. Most of my family is here, so many long-time friends are here. Local clubs I have been part of most of my life are here.
Still, I do threaten to leave now and then.
Never really was a Californian. And proud of it.
I'm 77 and was born and raised in California. It's sad what a mess the state has turned in to thanks to folks like Moonbeam. Not even our roads are in good repair any more.
Just too old to start over!
If hydrogen fusion could be cracked, and perfected, a huge hydrogen plant turning seawater into hydrogen gas (and the oxygen bottled for use elsewhere?) the surplus energy could be used to make extra gas for use in fuel cell cars (Hopefully)
Then they might have an alternative to fossil fuel. And should it be possible to store hydrogen in aircraft, flight would continue too.
But it's unlikely to happen.
With our governors last name Brown I thought we might be in trouble. Some things I read she is doing seem to inforce those thoughts.
So far Oregon has no sales tax, our area does not require EPA testing for cars and the town has given free tax for several years to some retailers.
Yester day the water department came by asking if I had a water leak----My meter is five hundred feet from the back of my home across a swamp done many years past. It would cost the city a bunch to run a main line two thousand feet around the swamp to put the meter in front of my home so they take last years water use and deduct costs from leak caused by a falling tree or elk stepping on my water line. Good thinking!! my job today is fixing a leak in a swamp.
Guess that is why so many large retailers are moving here so fast. The winter rain and wind is an issue but I will live with it.
Erik, reminds me of one I heard several years ago. When told that the Laws of Physics prevented something or other from being implemented, some politician is said to have replied, " Then we'll just have to get the Laws of Physics changed...."
So if the electric vehicle won over the petrol powered vehicle, would you be having this discussion? Suppose the state of California was now banning the electric car and this was a Baker Electric form -- how would the discussion go? All I know is there is no official band on the petrol engine and the future is not here yet...
California is the state of idiots. Not only the politicians but also the voters. The boast by Hillary that she won the majority vote was simply based on the California vote. If she had not won that she would have lost the majority vote too. Thanks to Governor Brown California is no longer the golden state, it is now the brown state and the stench is getting unbearable. I have lived here all of my life and never has it been so bad. The governor belongs in jail for lying and misuse of funds. Every word he utters is a lie and he is the illegal aliens best friend. We soon will be feeding all of Mexico and there will be no jobs to be had. Better sell your antique car while there is still a market.
Careful Glen C. I was forced into early retirement for saying things like that. One of the main reasons I am as broke today as I am.
The sad truth is, that dirty politics and corruption are nothing new. It dates back before the ancient Greeks, and exists the world over in all forms of government. That little truth said. I do not believe that corruption has ever been as bad as it is in Califunny today. With my engineering and physics background (no degrees on the wall, I fought with too many of my "teachers" to get them), I can see the corruption everywhere I look. Huge amounts of money spent on projects that are NOT needed, in ways that cannot work. Things that are poorly done, will not last, do no good. It is no wonder that the state is broke despite some of the worst taxes in the country, and the best weather (don't have to work or design around it).
But a lot of people are making small fortunes administering those jobs. Meanwhile, wages for good well trained people have gone down the past twenty years, while minimum wage has nearly doubled. Twenty years ago, I earned (and I mean earned) twenty five dollars an hour. For a variety of reasons (government intervention was only one of the reasons), that job ended. The last job I had? I was only paid fourteen dollars an hour (and I worked hard). Throughout the state, trained people who work hard are severely underpaid, while minimum wagers slacking their way though make only a dollar or two less per hour. Why pay for college? I know a pharmacy technician (training degrees, very intelligent, works hard, heavy work load), cannot afford to buy groceries in the store he works in.
Yes, Glen C, the voters are more the idiots than the politicians. And that is why schools do not teach students to 'think" anymore. I believe it was Lenin (Vladimir) that termed certain people "useful idiots". Califunny manufactures those by the millions.
I am just glad I left that state back in 1980! The only thing good about it then, was some of the people, ...............I'll think of something other then the weather. guess not.
Careful Wayne S. Similar boat as you, I blew out of town and State. You will also get Martin Vowell up on his soap box. And I do agree with you and Glenn.
Glad I left as well, this past spring I returned to pick up some of my things that had been in storage (most got destroyed in Hurricane Irma oh well) and was reminded why I won't be back.
George, I don't have a soap box, I've got a stack of them.
Anyhoo, I also agree with both Glen and Wayne on the Califunny situation. This state is the proverbial bowl of granola...what isn't fruits or flakes, is just plain nuts. For an example...Governor Moonbeam is trying to build a "high speed train" using plain old iron rail. High speed rail is a ceramic composite that is fluid cooled...are we gonna put in any of that sort of track...no, why? Because it's prohibitively expensive in today's business climate here in Califunny. Now the other choice (and a better one I think) is MagLev (Magnetic Levitation), it's a frictionless ride system but requires very accurate alignment issues and takes "gaboons of electricity to power it. But the EPS has already spoken out against coal fired generators and won't let another nuclear powered generator to be built...so what powers this train...Solar Power? Geothermic Vent? I have no idea, your guess is as good as mine.
It's basically a chance to throw good money down a the toilet and stroke old Moonbeam's ego at the same time...does it have a chance of working...NO, and what's worse...we all know it too (Moonbeam is the only one who doesn't...can you say senile?).
Hydro electric of course. Its clean energy and CA has plenty of streams and rivers. Sorry I forgot dams are bad also.
We all have our political views. Some have served in the military, been employed or elected to state, federal, local, and municipal jobs and have been officials and have taken an oath to defend the Constitution. Which allows for states rights. And from the discussion some do not like California or other states to use the states rights card when governing.
In case some have forgotten their civics class - "In American political discourse, states' rights are political powers reserved for the state governments rather than the federal government according to the United States Constitution, reflecting especially the enumerated powers of Congress and the Tenth Amendment."
So if California or Alaska want to be the odd nation of free thinkers the Constitution allows it. As I have always been told call your congressman.
Just remember" Only you can prevent bad government."
To Martin V - "High speed rail" is whatever it's supporters choose to define it by. Amtrak says that any train that exceeds 124 mph at any point on it's route is high speed rail. My definition is the speed must average 100 mph between any two points (stations) that are 100 miles apart. In France the TGV tries for 186 mph, but hits 200 in spots. Sure it is possible to go faster, but if I could get from LA to Frisco in under 4 hours while listening to Smetana and Mendelssohn on my headphones, with a good glass of Riesling in my hand - why would I want to drive or fly? Of course a better question would be "why would I want to be in California in the first place?"
The south end of the rail is going to be very expensive, because it must go through mountains (Grapevine, or Tehachapi) and must secure right of way through very expensive real estate. The north end must go across the San Francisco Bay and also through very expensive real estate. That is why the central part through mostly flat farming areas was started first. The rail must also cross the San Andreas Fault which could derail the train. Also would be subject to terrorist attacks or just plain vandalism.
Not a very good plan when we already have airports in almost all the major locations along the way and air travel is faster than "high speed rail".
The problem with government is that when the immediate problem is solved, instead of closing shop, they look for other things to do to keep their jobs and money coming. The air pollution board was created to solve the smog problem in L.A. and other cities. That problem has been largely solved but now they are looking for other things to control such as carbon dioxide, which is harmless and which plants need.
Berkley is in California - enough said!
I'm formally from SoCal...
I miss a few things since I moved out ..
My son and his beautiful Family...
Sisters and friends....
Camping at the beach...
That's about it....!!!!
It took me six trips to bring our household things,,shop equipment , and cars here to our new home..
Every time I went past the sign of our new town tears would run down my face wondering why I hadn't done it sooner in life.
It's not perfect here but more like what I remember as a child..
Neighbors wave,,heck perfect strangers wave when you pass by...I pinch myself everyday and thank God for the green and beauty around our home...
Family and friends come here and visit and the roads a T-Friendly.....I never look back and enjoy each day of our new adventure....
Carl.......aka "Slim over at the Lazy S Ranch,Montrose CO.."
Norman, The highways also must cross the San Andreas Fault. Rail takes a much narrower right of way then a highway. As to flying being faster - long haul I'll agree with you, but for 500 miles or less, no. Rail can take you from city center to city center. In most places the airport is located way out of town - think O'hare, DFW or Denver. Another factor is security - add an hour and a half to the flight time, and the hassle of walking a mile or more to get out of the airport, and 150 mph rail between LA and San Francisco would be faster then the bus with wings. The French TGV line from Marseilles to Paris- a trip about 100 miles greater then the LA - SF route - paid for itself in 10 years, effectively killed Marseilles to Paris air travel, and had to go to double-decker cars because of the huge demand for seats. I'm not a huge Jerry Brown fan, but I think he's right on high-speed rail.
We have family & friends living in CA too, so we also hear their concerns. Our many differences in humanity, and experiences, will give us all an opportunity to complain.
Even our Republican Senator up here did not have a response to my question: "Is there a political party with a 'common sense' platform? If so, they have my backing and vote!" Unfortunately, the results continue to cast doubt that 'common sense' ever prevails. There would likely be an objection to that, too? JMHO.
To John Codman, I am a retired highway engineer after 32 years with Caltrans and prior to that a railroad civil engineer for 5 years with AT&SF Ry. The problem is that highways can use 6% grades and 5K Ft radius curves. The high speed rail would require lower grades and longer radius curves thus requiring tunnels. Tunneling in a area with faulted and fractured rock is very iffy and expensive, it isn't like tunneling threw hard rock. The route that Comrade Jerry Brown chose is just plain wrong and that is why there is no private money for the project !
I am not going to worry about it. All my great grandchildren live outside California, so they won't need to worry about it either and in 2040 I will be well over 100 years old.
A more urgent problem is that the movers and shakers of California want to secede from the United States which will lead to, perhaps another civil war, or at minimum the decision whether to lose one's citizenship or one's property.
I just wish we could all get along and not try to rule everyone else. Interestingly, when a person or group of people try to force their way on others, they get into big trouble, but yet government can force people and it's all right. Doesn't make sense.
All about fomenting crisis for the sake of change, to justify forcibly defining winners and losers and sustaining stakeholder relevance in markets.
I don't know of a more intensely corrupt cauldron of true despicables than Sacramento, except maybe Washington, DC
"Common Sense." Heard long ago: "The problem with common sense is that it isn't all that common." Still applies.
Governor Brown was a bad governor the first time and the fools in California elected him a second time. First he lied to us about the money from the Lotto going to the schools. Then he thought we forgot and lied to us again and said that the money from Indian gaming was going to the schools. Boy, with all that money and all they already had our schools would all be ivy league schools The schools never got a cent of that money and are hurting for money just as bad today as they were before the lotto and Indian gaming was approved. Same with the new gas tax money, it will never get to the roads as promised. It will stop in the illegal alien wellfare and litigation defense funds to protect illegals. This governor and his liberal legislature are insane. We cannot afford them and the state will soon be bankrupt with the cost of illegals that will stream into the state once it is declared a sanctuary state. The California vote was the only reason Hilary won the popular vote. Every other state had more sense than to fall for her bag of lies. She was as big a liar as Brown.
Here is a interesting thought from Facebook online:
San Francisco Democrat Phil Ting wants to BAN all gas and diesel cars by 2040. Governor Jerry Brown agrees and wants California to be more like China.
Once Democrats can no longer tax gas, what will they want to tax next and what does Jerry Brown mean by, more like China ?
More like China?
How about Crony Semi-Capitalism for an elite few and serfdom for the rest...They are well on their way.
China has the worse polution of any country in the world because they control nothing. Governor Brown makes no sense and never has.
A slightly different perspective . . .
Perhaps China desires to eliminate combustion engines to reduce traffic so their wealthy won't have that problem?
If so imangine CA where the middle class has no cars and the poor are left to designated mass transit, hmmmmm.
"What will they tax next and what does Jerry Brown mean by, more like China?"
Knowing old Moonbeam, probably the air we breath, he is already trying to levy a tax on the cattle and dairy ranchers here, for the "excess methane" their cows give off through their "farts". In fact he wants all the ranchers to put some sort of catalytic converter on the hind end of their cows to prevent this pollution or face a heft fine.
The other project the stupid EPA is up to is putting a poop catcher on horses...seems road apples are pollution also...even though most of it is used in fertilizer around here...but those nasty old road apples draw flies and look unsightly laying beside the road. But then what do you expect from a state that tried (and still is trying) to prohibit the use of Fireplaces, and back yard Bar-B-Ques as they produce (insert discordant chord here) air pollution.
Sometimes I think they're trying to run all of the citizens out of this state and make it totally a refuge for the illegals from Mexico, because they're not interested in making it a Sanctuary State for the illegal Chinese who come here, crammed into Iso shipping containers...those they ship out back to China. God knows what happens to those people once they get there.
As to "more like China?" Tell me what business Jerry Brown had in going to China last year anyway...believe it or not he set up trade agreements with China for the state of Calfunny...something a governor can not do, but that didn't stop Moonbeam...as far as China is concerned, they have a trade agreement with this state...what none of us knows is what that agreement is or what it entails, because nobody was ever said other than it would be good for Califunny. GAWD! I want out of this freaking State!
My over view is conservative the way I was raised-----my daughter is a Nurse P earning about 1K a day. My grand daughter buys older tractors not up to California EPA standards from farmers she works for the state not yet thirty years old. Her sister my other grand daughter in California is a licensed hair dresser before she was twenty, her husband is a licensed funeral director. They seem to be doing OK and have done it without my help. You had better be in the right employment area or work for the state to live in California is my view.
Kevin, Yes a railroad cannot handle the grades or turn radii that cars can, but I'm guessing that it would not have to pass through the fault in a tunnel. I do realize that there will have to be tunneling, and tunneling is expensive, but high-speed rail can be far less polluting then the number of vehicles necessary to transport the same number of people, it is faster, and vastly more fuel efficient. Since a railroad can (and probably should) be electric overhead wire powered, the source of pollution can be strategically located, and if wind, solar, and hydro power can be incorporated into the railroad's power grid, pollution can be reduced even further. With our expanding population, we simply cannot build our way into a better transport system by building highways. I-95 needs at least two more lanes each way right now, and probably more then that in Florida. I don't even want to think what that would cost.
". . . a bunch of Rollin' hemorrhoids foulin' up the air . . ."
- Dave Stamey - "Someone Needs to Go Back Home"
Copyright Horse Camp Music
Can't we (shouldn't we) just 'kick the can down the road?' Blindness is blissful! That seems to have worked so far... And we'll be long-gone by the time our grandkids and their children will need to wrestle with paying for it!
(With my apologies for the cynical sarcasm from a fly-over resident.)
Marv,We will have our turn to bitch this winter!!
Marv, We may not have a road to kick the can down. Browns new gas tax will never get to a road. It will stop with helping illegal aliens and paying for all the healthy retirements of state employees.
Time to close Oregon and Washington's boarders! Our state workers retirement program is really screwed up too, way top heavy, it could put the state under.
Is there any other state where there is a $92.00 annual registration on fee a Model T? I just got that bill from DMV for my 23...(92X4(t's) =$368.00). Then there's the Lincoln and the Jeep GC that are a lot more. On top of that there's $250.00 state income tax each quarter..... And I can't forget the 8.25% sales tax on everything I buy. (That's a bunch of $$ on a $30,000.00 car.) Thinking of moving to Tennessee, Texas or Oklahoma.
John, You should consider moving to California from Florida, it sounds like you would be very happy here and you could get away from those hurricanes. I am not against high speed rail in general, and the type of system the voters approved in late 2008, using the I5 corridor or partnering with existing railroads for alignment upgrades could have worked. The problem is we got a typical Jerry Brown system of political payback, making it many days late and many dollars short, in general just plain FUBAR !
I can remember, not so long ago, when it cost $25.00 to register and license a Model T in California with historical vehicle plates. the licence was good forever, no annual fees. Then Governor Brown showed up.
Kevin - California has four seasons, mud, fire, earthquake, and smog. Florida has just two - hurricane and beautiful. IMHO California is ungovernable as it is. No thanks, I'd move back to Massachusetts first, and that ain't gonna happen. I freely admit that I am a major proponent of (relatively) high-speed rail. Rail is the most fuel-efficient method of moving people and freight over land. Many years ago the late Andy Rooney commented that it takes 1,500 gallons of fuel to fly 100 people from New York to Chicago - it takes 100 gallons of fuel to transport 1,500 people by rail over the same distance. Honestly I think he's a bit light on the fuel required by rail, but if it took rail 1,500 gallons it would still be 15 times more fuel-efficient.
You know,sometimes I can't sleep at night. I lay in the bed and all kinds of things cross my mind. Sometimes things have to go back and forth a few times for me to catch them.
But I got to thinking. My body runs on energy.
It BURNS calories. I have determined WE HUMANS are biological internal combustion engines! If Californy bans internal combustion, then all Humans will have to leave as we BURN calories inside our selves and produce emissions!
You got it! Banning humans is next thing on the list of progressive laws in California. I hope they wait until after I get some time driving my newly converted electric model T.