Wheel Identification

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Wheel Identification
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Heiser on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 01:16 pm:

I am new to the forum. I recently picked up a '15 Roadster Pickup and am continuing restoration after the prior owner.
I am identifying parts and definitely in the learning mode.
Right now I am attempting to identify the manufacturer of the wheels should I attempt a spoke replacement.
Would these be a Kelsey Hayes or a Ford wheel. Is there someway I can look to identify>
I see there are aftermarket hickory spokes available. Are these difficult to replace.
Thanks for any help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 01:40 pm:

Please take and post pictures of various aspects of your wheels and rims and post them here, folks will look at them and tell you what you have.

Be aware that the maximum file size per picture is 250K. If your files are larger than that, you will have to resize them using Paint or the picture editing software of your choice. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 02:01 pm:

There are no Kelsey Hayes wheels before 1927 when the two companies merged. Joint plates identify the wheels if they're marked.





Joint plates are also marked H for Hayes and K for Kelsey.

Bruce McCalley's Model T Encyclopedia goes into much more detail about wheels and many other things. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

No, making a Regan press and installing spokes is not difficult if your wheels have steel felloes. But if they're actual 1915 wheels (wood felloes) I'd send them to Noah Stutzman for all new wood. In fact, even with steel felloes it may be less costly these days to have him do it. Current dealer prices for spokes make the DIY cost $126 a wheel. Noah used to sell spokes for about half that, but I don't know if he still does.

Something else you should know about as a new owner: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html. Check with the previous owner. If he hasn't dealt with it, you need to.

Welcome to the affliction. I hope to see you at one of our Kansas events.


I have a 1915 too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 03:12 pm:

There was also a "P" for Pruden I believe, but those felloe joiner plates are on wood felloe only - what style of wheel do you have ? I see you are saying it's a '15 but are they clincher or demountable wheels ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 03:25 pm:

More questions: Did non-demountable wheels (through '25, I believe) always have wooden felloes ? I don't think factory demountable rims were available before 1919.

Steve, what make are those wheels with the "M" and "Ford MW" felloe plates ?

Prudden Wheel became Motor Wheel Corporation in 1921 - possibly the "MW" is Motor Wheel ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 05:04 pm:

Rich, the answer is yes. Here's a wood-felloe wheel of the type used in the twenties.


This is the "square felloe" wheel.


Nondemountable wheels from the teens have rounded felloes like this. The P is for Pruden or Prudden. I've seen it spelled both ways. I don't remember what M is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 05:36 pm:

There were also some steel fellied non-demoutable wheels used by ford (30X3 front, 30X3 1/2 rear). I have yet to see anything definitive as to exactly WHEN they were used. Past discussions on this forum indicate they may have been used as early as maybe 1921, and probably through 1926. Some records indicate they were used exclusively on the improved ('26/'27 model) Ts. However, other evidence (including original factory photos, and surviving cars and wheels) indicate that square felloe wood felloes were also used in considerable numbers on the loss-leader improved cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 06:00 pm:

For Rich,

Note Ford did use a non-demountable steel felloe wheel. From: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wheels under the 1919-1924 listing:

"Non-demountable wheels continued as standard equipment. In 1920 the wooden felloes were replaced with steel, and wheels could then be supplied without hubs. (The wood-felloe wheels tended to warp when there was no hub in place.)"

Note -- I believe that the wooden felloe non-demountable wheels continued to be used -- but I do not have documentation to support that. However, based on the the very few surviving metal felloe non-demountable wheels I suspect the wood felloe was also used during that time. [A thought that just occurred to me, perhaps the WWII scrap drives snagged a lot of the metal felloe non-demountables? Not sure, but I have seen a lot more of the square wooden felloe non-demountables than the metal felloe non-demountables. ]

And Dan Treace at the second link below on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 11:16 am shared:

Those all metal non-demountable were listed in the parts book, front 2800D for 30x3 metal felloe, Dec 1920 and the 2814 for rear in 30x3 1/2 and later Dec 25 rear 2814C2 large drum for the Improved Car.



For additional discussion and photos of steel fellow non-demountables please see:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/242243.html?1319233634#POST376326

and

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/395844.html?1382196757

And Ford USA introduced the factory demountable clincher rims in the 1919 model year ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wheels
again see 1919-1924 section.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Heiser on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 06:57 pm:

Good ID Info. Thanks
Here are some pics of the front & rear wheels. It looks to me like I have Ford in front and Hayes in the back.'25 Roadster PU Wheels


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Heiser on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 07:07 pm:

Another pic of the Hayes wheel
Looks like I have a combination of the two. Would it have come from the factory like this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 09:05 pm:

Your T has been "modified" to sport demountable rims - not a factory install on a '15 - should be round wood felloe wheels I believe without looking it up with 30 x 3 on the front & 30 x 3.5 on the rears. Usually done to enjoy touring more instead of changing clinchers on the side of the road ! Does your T sport a spare rim & tire ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 09:47 pm:

Steve is correct. 1915 wheels from the factory would be round felloe non-demountable, 30 x 3 front and 30 x 3 rear. Your car has been "modernized" with demountables from 1919 or later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Heiser on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 10:31 pm:

I need to apologize. I meant to say it is a 1925 Roadster Pickup. Mistakenly hit the 1 button instead of the 2.
Please take time to review your comments.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, September 29, 2017 - 10:40 pm:

Do all of your metal felloes have notches under each lug? If yes, then it might have come with Hayes rims all around. The Ford rims will fit fine on the Hayes felloes, but I doubt that a car would have come from the Ford factory with a mix of the two rims.


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