Hello all.on my 1925 t I have up and down play on outer axel bearing. My question is how much play should I have before replace bearing.thanks in advance. HAROLD
Hyatt rollers are supposed to measure .500". I believe the axle book says if they're under .495" they should be replaced. Your axle play probably includes wear on both bearing rollers and sleeves.
Harold... the bearing is probably fine, it's the outer sleeve that slides in the axle tube that wears out. Just get new ones from Langs, they're cheap.
Ditto on James' post, pull the bearings to clean and inspect them, they'll probably be fine. I got my new sleeves from Chaffin's, they recently started making them with the same hardness level as the original Ford sleeves.
Langs has been buying sleeves exactly like Ford made them for years. There is no need to go anywhere else.
Harold, the sleeves, bearings and AXLES can all be worn. Bearings and sleeves are an easy fix. Worn axles are a different hit to the hip pocket.
Allan from down under.
When you say worn axles could you elaborate, maybe a picture. Just curious as to where one would look for wear, inside and outside parameters?
You can read a book and/or diagrams having over all mechanical knowledge of axles in general. However, ones knowledge and familiarity of a specific axle super seeds mere book knowledge.
Could you or some one point out wear patterns or deficiencies of a model t axle? Diagrams?
Axle wear will be where the shaft rides in the bearings. It can also be on the taper, along with other damage, if it has suffered a loose wheel. The MTFCA axle book tells you what to check and measure.
Larry, you are wrong, lang's buys their sleeves from Bradley's. They claim they are made to Ford's print but they are not. Ford hardened their sleeves to C26. Hyatt sleeves were hardened to C35. Bradley's sleeves are C18. I talked to Bradley's and they would not change them, so we made our own. I used C35 like Hyatt to give them a little extra life.
Sleeves wear the most on the outer edge of the outer sleeves. That is where the most load is on the bearing. You usually find a raised ridge at the outer side of the outer sleeves. The inner sleeves get little wear.
From what I seem to recall from years of following this forum, there has always been some controversy in the area of the ideal degree of "hardness"of the sleeves. Naturally, something's gonna' wear, and I would think that the harder the sleeve, the more wear to the bearing, and of course, visa-versa,.....so I can't help but wonder what the ideal "hardness" would be,....??? Sorta' like, which do you want to eventually have to replace first, the bearings, or the sleeves! Of course, there are other considerations that only an engineer would fully understand, but it's interesting. Sorta' reminds me of the controversy and debate about the "ideal" material for spring shackle bushings, right? Sorry,....just sorta' "thinking out loud",..... harold
Oops! Sorry Glen,...simultaneous typing! I guess you just "touched upon" one of those "other considerations" I mentioned,.....harold
The bearings are much harder than the sleeves so i thing C35 is ideal
Glen - Not trying to "muddy the water" here, so to speak, but there are the original spiral Hyatt bearings (which, personally, is all I will use) and then there are the replacement type that are available from most "T" vendors, that are the solid roller type. I'm wondering how the degree of hardness might vary between the modern "repo" solid roller bearings and the original spiral Hyatt rollers,.....???
Glen,....you mentioned that the most wear occurs at the outer edge of the sleeves, and it's my opinion that that is partially due to the fact that the original spiral Hyatt rollers will flex to a very minute (my-nute) degree, whereas the repop solid rollers will not. (....that's why I only use original original spiral Hyatts if they are .495" or better.)
John, the axles wear most where the outer bearing runs on the shaft. The ground surface wears more on the outer end of the bearing, especially if the cage holding the rollers is loose on the pins. The inner bearing and axle journal are usually fine, as these carry little load compared with the outer bearing.
This situation can largely be ignored if safety hubs are installed. As there is no bearing contact on the axle itself, it can be quite worn. All that is needed is a good taper, keyway and thread on the end.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Harold, I believe the roller bearings are around C50, so they are considerably harder than the sleeves. So the sleeves are still the sacraficial lamb when it comes to wear even at C35. The original hyatt bearings had grooves to move the oil around not to flex. It's true they could flex but you would have to put a hell of a force on the axle tube to make the bearing flex. With the use of inner seals today the outer bearing becomes a sealed bearing. It no longer uses oil but is filled with grease. Since it is a sealed bearing the modern solid rollers can easily move the grease around without grooves. Therefore, no problem.
Original Hyatt rollers were spiral wound material and I suspect only case hardened. I checked a worn one that I have here and it only hits Rc20. I believe the original rollers were spiral wound not so they would "flex", but so they would accept shock loading. I once dropped a brand new Berliss roller bearing with solid rollers. They have a tip on the end of the roller that locates it in the cage, whereas spiral wound Hyatts are hollow with a tip on the cage to locate the roller, and the tip on the solid roller popped right off when it hit the floor.
Checking a new Berliss solid roller I have on hand (non-Model T size), it is about Rc65. Checking case hardening is a different animal and I'm not set up to do it.
I recently checked the hardness of one of 4 sleeves I bought from Lang's, it was Rockwell C-36, fwiw, jb
James, That sounds like one of ours.
It came from Langs several years ago. Maybe hardening on my shelf. jb
Maybe you checked it when it was cold out!
All I know is Steve Coniff originally made the sleeves to the Ford print. He turned over the production to a young man in Colorado Springs to make those sleeves. I can't understand why that man would change what Steve told him to do. I'm running those sleeves in my car now, and have not had a problem.
Allan Bennett has nailed it. Safety Hubs on the outboard and standard Hyatt's inboard
I've never had to replace a bearing. Only the sleeve. Of the bearing is worn down to 0.45 thou' or whatever you can put shim metal between the sleeve and the housing.