BANG!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: BANG!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker, Oklahoma City on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:31 am:

So...

The Misses and I decided to take our '24 Touring out for a spin yesterday. Everything was going along smoothly and we were enjoying the particularly nice weather, when suddenly... BANG! The entire car shook. Then, it continued along, as though nothing had happened. We stopped the car, did a thorough visual inspection, saw nothing, so we kept going.

A while later, we heard another bang, but nowhere near as severe. We drove home and parked her, again having no other trouble.

Now the challenge is to figure out what happened. I've ruled out anything in the engine or transmission, since the car was running and driving just fine. Probably not any of the more expensive bangs, like a broken crank or grenaded tranny drum.

I'm suspecting that the trouble lies in the rear end, particularly the pinion bearing. I believe it has suffered from spontaneous unplanned disassembly.

I'll let y'all know what I find as I dig into it in the near future. Until then, feel free to make guesses!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:39 am:

Was it back fire due to loose wire? Maybe a different bang?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:48 am:

I would jack up the rear end in a silent place and with the tranny in free neutral rotate each tire slowly and listen for any unusual noises. I have had a backfire that blew out my muffler and the whole car did not shake, but it did slow slightly before it backfired.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 10:14 am:

Cameron - I would open the crankcase and transmission inspection covers just to be sure. Funny things can happen and maybe you'll catch something before a catastrophic (i.e. more expensive) failure occurs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 10:16 am:

I had a big bang like that, but the car continued to run and drive ok. About a week later the left rear wheel fell off caused by a broken axle shaft right where the taper begins.

But that wasn't what caused the big bang. What it turned out to be was the pinion bearing sleeve shattered. Later, all the small pieces got between the ring gear and the pinion. The ring gear and pinion weren't damaged, but the weakest spot was an apparent crack in the axle shaft, and resulted in complete breakage at that point.

Whatever happened with yours, I recommend removing and checking the rear end.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 10:55 am:

Cameron... I experienced something similar many years ago. I searched for days looking for the problem and never found it. It happened a couple of times. Then, one day, I was standing next to the front of the car while it was idling and it happened again. That's when I noticed that the crank handle had slid in toward the crank snout, got too close and, BANG, the cog hit the pin and slammed the crank handle forward again. The culprit was the spring had come out of the little divot on the crank handle and allowed it to move in toward the crankshaft. Give yours a look.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 11:15 am:

Many things can cause a "Bang". A loose ignition wire or bad switch can cause a sudden misfire which causes unburnt gas in the exhaust system to explode.

Another cause of bang could be some loose part in the engine or transmission. Usually when that happens, you will either come to a complete stop or you will hear a continuous knocking.

You could also have a problem in the rear axle, but there too, you could either lose the ability to accelerate or to brake and you would also hear a continuous noise or stop completely.

Here is a description of something which happened on my car. Two different things happened. One was the driveshaft broke. When I pushed the low pedal there was a bang and I was in free wheeling. Fortunately I had Rocky Mountain brakes and was able to stop.

Another time I got a bang but the car kept running. The starter would not work after that happened. I took off the transmission inspection plate and found a bolt laying on my filter screen. Unfortunately, it had already knocked off some teeth from the starter gear on the flywheel. That was one of the bolts which hold the driven plate at the back of the brake drum. The wire was broken and the bolt was loose.

So a Bang can be caused by these or other things. You will just need to keep looking until you find the cause.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 11:24 am:

Sounds like what my wife's touring did when the differential carrier busted. Wasn't real loud, but definitely felt it......then it acted perfectly normal. Drove 20 miles home. Parked it. Went to back it out of the shop a couple of weeks later and it only went 10 feet. Wouldn't pull back in, so we pushed it. Determined the problem was in the rear end, and upon disassembly, the carrier fell out in a couple of dozen pieces. The initial damage must have just cracked everything, but it held together within its confined area. Splitting the case allowed it to fall apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Gagel, Orange,Ct on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 12:17 pm:

My car went BANG three times. The last one was at a stop sign. The crank broke.
When the engine pan was removed there were three stress relief fractures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker, Oklahoma City on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 07:24 pm:

Thank you all for your input!

I'm going to start with the differential, especially since it's so critical to Ts. I do like being able to stop!

It definitely sounds like it came from the rear, plus I have some goodies for the rear end that I've never gotten around to installing. Good excuse to finally do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 07:32 pm:

I had a loud bang, and knew it wasn't the engine, pulled the rear end and the U joint had blew up, I was able to get back home. It was a shock but didn't have to go into the rear axle. Maybe you might find the same.
Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker, Oklahoma City on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 08:53 am:

Update time!

After proceeding to start tearing apart the rear end and investigating the bang, the cause immediately became apparent:
Bang 1
Bang 2
Bang 3

As you can see, the hub is missing 3 nuts, and one of them is completely destroyed and mangled! Notice the brake shoe now has a missing ear, and the brake spring is resting on the bottom. Also, the nice modern grease seal got completely chewed up and now has a big groove in it, allowing grease to burst forth into the brake hub, making a big mess.

I tend to err on the side of caution, so I went ahead and tore apart the rear axle anyway. Turns out nothing was wrong with it. The suspected pinion bearing was good, nothing wrong with the U-joint, all gears and bearings were good, and nothing was loose. I had some new things I wanted to put in it anyway, including a new ring gear and a 10 tooth pinion.

I don't know exactly what caused the issue. The wheel was a bit loose on the axle when I pulled it, so it's possible it tilted while driving and jammed the nuts against something, or they just plain fell off and happened to get caught in something. I did notice that when I rebuilt the wheels several years ago, I never peened the nuts! Whatever the cause, I have some new parts on the way and it will soon be good as new!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 09:30 am:

WOW! looks like you have a mess to clean up. could have been worse let us know what you find when you get the rear end apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 09:34 am:

The first thing I always think of when I see a mess like that is this: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html

Do you know for sure what's inside your rear axle? Just cleaning up and fixing the wheel and the brake is futile if the thrust washers or other rear axle parts have gone south. If that's the case you'll have another BANG.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker, Oklahoma City on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 10:02 am:

Steve,

You are totally right. I took the rear end completely apart and checked everything. This is the second time I've had it apart. The first time... well... guess how I know about those pesky babbitt thrust washers :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 10:19 am:

Cameron; With modern seals inboard (?) and out board you should not have to grease as often as the Owners Manual and chart says. With good seals the grease should not be getting out unless over greased, the grease is pushed out and will escape thru the least resistance path.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker, Oklahoma City on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 12:07 pm:

Mark,

Yep. I do have the modern inside seals. I do know that you can't really add grease to the wheel bearings with modern seals. They really just turn them into sealed bearings. Pump more grease into them and it's going to ooze out somewhere!

I learned that one the hard way :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 12:21 pm:

I was on a HCCA tour back in July when the same thing happened on two separate T's. The cast brake shoe broke and sheared off most of the nuts. Their wheels were ready to collapse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:46 pm:

If the thrust bushings are worn or incorrectly fitted, it could cause the axle to move toward the opposite side of the tube. That would pull that wheel closer to the backing plate causing the nuts to scrape. However, I think your whole problem could have been caused by the nuts having not been peened. Depending on how long the bolts protruded beyond the nut, they could have been scraping. Anyway, when you put things back together, be sure to check that nothing scrapes and be sure to peen the nuts. You might also need to shim the hub on the axle to give more clearance.

You are lucky that the spokes did not collapse causing you to roll over of at least lose a wheel.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:48 pm:

If you are running original Ford axle shafts, and since you have the rear axle apart, I would clean up the shafts and have them magnafluxed for cracks, to prevent another "bang" down the road. :-)


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