Hyatt outer bearing stuck on TT rear

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Hyatt outer bearing stuck on TT rear
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Williams on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:56 am:

Hello, I'm a new member and new to T's, but have wrenched on rigs all my life as I'm a farmer. I had to work on everything out of necessity. Anyway, I'm working on my 25 TT, replacing the seals on the rear end. I completed one side with not much trouble, but the other side is dealing me a fit. I can't get the bearing out. It spins free, but only moves about 1/16 inch back and forth. I suspect it has worn a groove in the sleeve or fell behind the sleeve. Has anyone out there had this problem and what was the fix? I could use some help on this one. Pulling my hair out (what little I have left). Thanks, Bryan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 10:15 am:

I suspect either a groove worn in the axle or else in the sleeve. See if you can determine which, and maybe you can force the ends of the rollers up out of the groove. Maybe holding some "pull" pressure on the cage will allow you to work the rollers out without them falling back in as you work on the next one. I had the same problem on mine. Been years, but I know I did finally get them out and replaced the sleeves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 11:31 am:

Bryan

take a wire hanger or similar diameter wire and fashion a hook on it to get between the axle and the outer cage...either turn the engine over or otherwise get that axle to rotate...while rotating, apply outward pull on the bearing...it should ride up and over the groove in the sleeve and come out

best of luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 11:32 am:

oh, and welcome to the forum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Williams on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 11:50 am:

I can not really determine if it is the axle or the sleeve with the groove. I put some shim stock between the cage and the axle (on the outside half of the bearing), didn't help. I put some shim stock between cage and sleeve with the same results. I will try the wire hook, rotation, and pressure trick. I will get back with results. Thanks for the input.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 12:40 pm:

Had this same issue
Was groove in the sleeve
As said befor make a wire hook now turn the axel up and aroundwiggle it as you pulling on the bearing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Williams on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 01:27 pm:

I'm not getting anywhere with this bearing. What is my next option? I know this could be the last resort, but can I drill out the ends of the connecting bars and take the outer ring of the cage off and remove the rollers? just a thought.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 01:57 pm:

I would not do that right now. Each roller is hollow, and held in place by a "pip" of upset metal on each end piece. If you drill out the cage stays and remove the end plates the only thing that will come out is the end plate and then the rest will be stuck with nothing to pull on.

I've not encountered one that would not eventually come out. I'd now suggest trying to drive it in a little and pull it back a little and keep at it that way. Really, with a groove in the axle, which you may have, and a groove in the sleeve, which is a near certainty, rotation and leverage is your friend.

The bulk of the "lip" on the outer race will of course be on the top as that's where the pressure is when in service.

I'd also start attacking things with brake cleaner and a nozzle to make sure you can see any raised metal and knock out some of the gook which may have hardened and is what may be really providing the resistance that you're facing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 03:33 pm:

This may be a long shot but what if you put the outer dust cap back on and pump it full of grease using a zerk fitting and grease gun instead of the cup? The grease may help hold the cage up in the rear. If there is much radial slop in the axle, I would also lift up on it some so that it isn't putting downward pressure on the bearing. Good luck.

(Message edited by JunkyJud on October 09, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Williams on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 04:34 pm:

Here is a little history on this TT. I bought it not long ago. It sat in an Iowa barn for at least 40 years. The 85 year old owner said he won it in a poker game and only drove it on the farm. He didn't do anything to it but put gas in it and go. I bought it as a non runner. I have not tried to start it. It does turn over. It came with Model TT hubs welded onto AA wheels. I found some TT wheels to put on. I need it to roll before I do anything. It's plugging up my shop. It looks like there was only 30w oil in the rear end when I drained it, so bearing are flushed clean. Any grease that was in it went out the bad seals and all over the AA wheels, then on the ground. I think I will try the long shot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 08:22 pm:

I would not do what Justin said. His assumption is that the metal will float on the grease. It will not. If you were trying to get a lid off of a cylinder which could be pressurized, this would be a good and safe idea. This is not your problem. Totally filling it with grease will simply obscure any line of site you have.

If you are completely and totally stumped, you can drill the end of the cage, wedge it so it won't rotate and tap it for, say, a 10-32 or 1/4-20 screw, insert a long-ish screw (maybe put in two, at 180 degrees apart), and pull it out with a hammer or slide hammer. I have never ever had one that tough, but cannot imagine one resisting this sort of pull. This advice is given with the belief that the metal is soft enough to drill and you have access to a long aircraft drill to get past the axle. I will be heading back to my shop soon and will lay a file on one to ensure that this is possible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 08:38 pm:

Just checked. The retaining portion of the bearing can be drilled...a file cuts it

Just checked an individual roller: it has about a .280 hole through it.

As I suggested, using one of the "pips" in the retaining ring as a centering hole for your drill, you should be able to drill/tap a hole up to 1/4-20 for purposes of pulling.

Pulling while rotating the axle will be the best bet to encourage the rollers up and out of the trough that has been worn in both the axle and the outer sleeve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:12 pm:

Have you turned the motor over in gear
Might have spung housing not uncommon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ernie Williams on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:21 pm:

I recently had a bent axle housing that made the bearing hard to get out and hard to get it. I owe the forum a post on successfully straightening the housing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Williams on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:27 pm:

Scott, I thought about filling with grease, but decided not to. One reason is if I try taking the end of the cage off, grease would really make it very difficult. I like the idea of drilling and tapping for two studs for a slide hammer. I might as well try that first before removing the end of the cage. I have been thinking of what you said about when removing the end of the cage. Wouldn't I be able to pull out the rollers if they ride on a "pip" as you call it, on both ends or do they ride on a rod that runs from one end to the other? If I can get the rollers out and then bend inward the bars or rods that hold the bearing together, shouldn't I be able to slide a sleeve puller in and remove the remainder of the bearing with the sleeve? I don't have an old bearing laying around to look at, which would help. P.S. I do believe I have a trough in both the axle and sleeve making removal so difficult. Thanks very much for the input.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 11:07 pm:

Bryan

the rollers are indeed hollow, and yes, if you were to drill or otherwise manage to wrestle the end of the bearing cage off, you would/should be able to work the rollers out, probably with long nose pliers. What an effort and mess, though. Let's hope you have good success with getting a hole or two tapped and pull that sucker out with some leverage. Once free of the burr(s) it will or should, come right out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 02:23 am:

The sleeve is soft. Can you use a burr knife to remove the ledge and let the bearing out? It will come out without drilling and tapping. Maybe a die grinder with a sharp corner on the stone. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Williams on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 12:03 pm:

I got the bearing out this morning (the hard way). Drilled end of stays and pulled the outer ring of the cage off. Took a pair of needle nose and pulled the rollers out, then pulled the rest of the bearing out. Deep grooves in the sleeve and groove in the axle. Thanks for all the help everyone. Bryan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 12:18 pm:

Thank you for the follow up. So often the job gets done without giving forum participants the satisfaction of hearing about it and occasionally learning something.

Thanks again and best of luck with your rebuild


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman, New Zealand on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 03:13 am:

And welcome to the hobby. TT rear bearings can be a 'bear'! I know too!
Glad it came out in the end.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Strickling on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 08:04 am:

Nice puns Adrian.


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