Lost of power when it's shifted into high

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Lost of power when it's shifted into high
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 09:22 pm:

Starting off, it gets up to speed in low, and when I shift into high, it bogs down and won't go faster than 20, and makes a couple of backfires, and then it wants to die out. It seems, to be starving for gas, but the fuel is fresh, and about 8 gallons. I drained the potato and the bowl, and it has a steady good stream from both, and no derbies in either container. I checked all the visible wiring connections and everything is tight. This also came on all of a sudden, with no problems beforehand. Any suggestions how to proceed, would be greatly appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 10:42 pm:

Sure sounds like fuel starvation. Any chance you have an in line fuel filter? Toss it. Might be air starvation. You have one of those foam "bags" on the carb intake. Toss it. Does your gas cap have a breather hole in it and not clogged?

Before going further than that, I'd open the mixture valve another 1/4-1/2 turn and try again. Just because it starts a bit lean is no guarantee that it will run at that lean a setting.

After that I'd go after the filter IN the potato. They sometimes varnish over much of the screen, and sometimes collect so much dust that the screen is more like a Brillo pad.

Next in the process of elimination for me would be to swap out the carb for a borrowed one/spare one and try again. If the prob goes away,it is the carb...if it doesn't you know the prob is not carburetor


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 11:30 pm:

Hi George, No fuel filter, no air/foam filter, gas cap vent reamed out a while ago with a small drill bit, still open, the potato has only been on there for about 3 years, ( it didn't come with one ), fuel tank clean. I do have an extra brand new carb, that I think I will try out, and see what happens, then I'm going to try the air/fuel mixture first again, and see if there is any difference


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 12:46 am:

Do you have a clear neutral and can reverse up okay??
Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 02:41 am:

Yes Alan, no problem with either, that why it baffles me so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 07:16 am:

I don't think it is fuel starvation.
Going fast in low uses more fuel than slow in high high.
It's about RPM.

Maybe Make sure that the low band is releasing completely.

Or you might be on the right track with fuel mixture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 07:59 am:

you might check the float valve on your carburetor. I had a similar problem with one of my T's and it had a "rebuilt" carburetor on it which I had bought at a swap meet. I found that there was a grose valve (looks like a ball bearing) for a float valve. I changed it to the original type needle valve and have had no more problems. The grose valve seems to be prone to clogging. which will lean your fuel mixture. because the fuel can't get into the carburetor as fast is it is being burnt.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 09:18 am:

Check for leakage at the intake. Been there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer --- Klaaswaal NL on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 10:05 am:

Keith B. At a Model T , most of the Carburetor problems are { Electric.}
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Erfert on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 12:16 pm:

Had a similar problem on the last club tour as we were going up a hill, after stopping and starting again I re-adjusted the needle valve and that solved it. I had leaned it while running on the level and must have been too lean to take the hill.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 02:08 pm:

It's fun being lysdexic ! I read the header as "LOTS of power when shifting into high". ; - )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 03:23 pm:

Thanks for all the great input:

Norman, I know it doesn't have a grose valve, as I have the invoice with all the parts I bought for it, but the float would be worth checking

Fred D. I will put the low band on the list

john D. I will put that on my list too

Toon: That was my very first thought if it seems like a carb problem, it might be electrical

Richard E. The first on my list to check is mixture.

Rich B. It DID have lots of power, before this

These are all suggestions that I thought about at first too, I check into all of these, and give an update on my findings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 09:26 pm:

I too suspected the low band lagging on without a quick, clean release however he has no issue with reverse. Maybe by that time the band has released. Anyway, have a peek in the inspection hole for band issues or weak / broken spring
Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 10:17 pm:

Keith- is the backfire through the exhaust or through the carburetor?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Spies - Ft. Walton Bch,FL on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 10:31 pm:

Check your coils. Ive had two Ts with a problem like yours that rebuilt coils fixed the lack of power in high.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 11:20 pm:

Just spent over 2 hours playing with the Carb mixture and then finally taking off the Carb, then found another little issue. As I was closing the potato valve, before removal of the carb, I accidently bumped the Cable coming from the starter, and it moved around on the bolt! Just an added issue. As the car warmed up, I kept turning it on and off, every few minutes, to judge how the engine was responding to starting and running at higher throttle speeds. As it warmed up to operating temps.,then,it wouldn't start at all. I stopped at point, as the pain in my lower back, from an herniated disk, told me to stop. I have a brand new Carb., that I want to try out, and also see if it will solve the problem.

John D. and All: I used the wrong word, when I started this thread, ( backfire ), it is more of a misfire?, popping sound, and not sure where it's coming from. I know that makes a difference, as it is also sporadic, but at higher engine speed. If I had to guess, it seems to come from the carb.

Alan L. I'm going to take off the transmission cover, as I have to look at something else in there, and I will look at the low band and springs and parts

I'm going to give it a try tomorrow, to get this moving forward, if I am able to get out of bed, been through this many times before. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 11:36 pm:

Keith

look again at John Doolittle's question this AM at 9:18.

Check with a small flow of unlit propane around the two intake ports.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 11:12 am:

Maybe time to define the term "backfire" or at least discuss the ways the term is used. I read one time that a "backfire" should refer to an initial response that causes the crankshaft to turn against normal engine rotation, and the pops and firecracker noises folks usually call "backfires" should be properly termed "explosion through the carburetor" or "explosion through the muffler".

I don't mean this nit-picking to take the conversation off Keith's problem, just to clarify, and I'd like to offer that low power in high and popping through the carburetor could be caused by valve timing being off, or perhaps just the initial ignition timing, or possibly something amiss with the spark advance linkage ?
(grasping at straws) Hope you get this sorted out, Keith !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 03:02 pm:

Keith- I may be getting picky but I think we all need a few answers to clear things up on this post.
1. "and makes a couple of backfires" - does this mean that it only backfires twice? Where are these backfires coming from? Exhaust or Carb?
2. "then it wants to die out"- Does it actually die out? Or, does it actually continue to run, while "acting" like it wants to die out?
3. What are derbies?
4. Do the conditions occur while running both on Battery and Magneto, or only on one of the two? If only one, then which one?

The reason I'm asking is because I recently had a similar situation that started suddenly and it blew my mind when I found the cause.

Maybe answering these question will lead to a quick fix on your car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Lyon, PDX, OR. on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 08:05 pm:

My car did this a while back when I forgot to advance the timing. Make sure your timing rod is hooked up and check inside the timer. Good luck, Don.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 08:07 pm:

Hi Scott:
I will have to go buy a propane torch, as I had to leave all my tools in Washington state, before I moved here to MN.

Rich B: I don't always have the correct words for describing the problem, my brain doesn't always work with my fingers, especially now. Using the correct terms, is the best way to go. Thanks for pointing it out, and clarifying them.

John D. Your not getting picky, you and Rich are using the correct terms, if I don't come across, that leaves you with simple questions, I'll never get it corrected. I'm am doing all this by myself, so it's hard for me, to pin down the exact places where the noise is coming from. Answers to your questions

1) It makes a few popping noises, not just two, as long as I keep the throttle up.

2) It does actually just, "die out", by itself, as if I shut the gas off, after it is warmed up.

3) That would be any foreign particles, that are not suppose to be in the gas. ( debris )Spelling?

4) It only runs on Battery, no mag.

I hope this gets closer to helping you all out, as to trying to pinpoint it. Feel free to ask anything.

After my 2 hour session, last night, bending and crawling under the car, my lower back is swollen and in pain at an 8, 10 being the worst, as I knew it would. I probably won't get the new carb on tonight, but I'll try getting the starter switch bolted up.

Thanks again....Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 09:27 pm:

Was the engine running on magneto when you first lost power? If you were running on battery either with coils or a distributor or other ignition system which uses battery, your loose connection at the starter terminal could be the cause of your backfire and loss of power. All connections between the battery and the ignition system must be clean and tight for it to properly run on battery.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 09:41 pm:

Norman

the connection to the starter, loose or tight, would in no way affect the ignition circuit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 09:59 pm:

Check compression, stuck valve will cause loss of power or an old cast valve that is burnt on a corner. they will run great till under heavy load.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 11:44 pm:

Popping and loss of power can also be caused by a bad valve lifter. I've been down that road. It never made the engine die, though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 03:38 am:

Great input Folks

Norman K. What Scott C. said

Joe B. I have a compression tester, BUT, I am all by myself here, except for my 3 legged dog, and he won't help me, believe me, I tried ! I can't turn it over, and hold the tester, as it is held down by your hand, instead of screwing into the spark plug hole. I do know that I have the new chevy or ford valves in both intake and exhaust, and not the factory ones.

Steve J., that is the biggest mystery of all, if it didn't stall, it night be a bit easier to figure out.

I will go down into town Thursday, and get a propane torch, and try and check for leaks in the intake manifold. Maybe one of the neighbor kids will help me, if they ride by tomorrow. There are only 3 houses total where I live, both sides of me, and they are all working all day.

I will try and get it all back together, and start these test, and keep you updated. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 04:04 am:

Keith- you wrote "that is the biggest mystery of all, if it didn't stall, it night be a bit easier to figure out."

I'm curious as to how long it runs before it finally dies, In other words, does it run for 5 or 10 minutes, then die?

If re-started does it immediately go dead??

After going dead, if allowed to sit for 5 minutes (not 25 mins) does it immediately go dead or does it go through the original cycle again? Which is run for a period the die- or - does it just die immediately?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 05:32 pm:

John D. When I first start up cold, it will run for 15 minutes or so, and seems like there is no problem at all, and no dying. Then after the engine warms up, it gets harder to start, then after it does start, (if it does start ), that's when it starts the popping noise starts, and then it will just die out on it's own, maybe within about 2 to 5 minutes. If I let it sit for only 5 minutes, then try to start, it's habit is not to start, until the engine is cool again. To be honest, I usually give up, and end it there. I hope I explained it to answer your questions. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 05:46 pm:

I had the same problem twice. Once was a bad spark plug that became faulty only under a load, like when I accelerated out of low gear.

This past summer I had the same problem. It was the clutch plates. They were slipping. A friend troubleshot the problem and found the clutch pin was not pushed out all the way for the clutch fingers to push against. This was observed with the car on blocks, transmission cover off, observed the clutch pin and fingers......

I am not well versed on this subject but maybe my friend will chime in and explain what he did to get my T working in high gear again if he thinks you concern is similar to mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims--Reed City,Mich. on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 07:27 pm:

Check the clearance between the valve stem and the lifter. Sounds like as it gets hot and the valves expand the gap is gone and a valve is kept open a little,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 09:22 pm:

Heat related. Five minutes after you shut off the engine it is hotter than it was when running because the fan is not pulling any air through the radiator. Jim might be on to something! An electrical problem could also be the cause. If you are running a distributor with one coil it could be the coil causing a problem. I had a car once (De Soto) which would run fine until it warmed up and then stop. After it cooled down it would start and run fine until it warmed up. Anyway, I finally found out that it had a bad ignition coil. The problem was heat related.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 09:57 pm:

Robert P. I just cleaned, and re-gaped the plugs about 2 weeks ago

Jim S. The valves have been suggested as a possible cause, which I will look into, good suggestion.

Norman K. I have a new Brassworks Radiator, but I guess it is still possible to being heat related, somehow. Never say Never, as they say.

I have a whole list that of things to check, Thanks to all the great input from everyone on here.I am now on timeline to figure it out and get it corrected, because as this late afternoon, the car has been Sold, and will be heading to Ohio, for a new caretaker.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 10:39 pm:

Are you running a distributor? If so it could likely be a bad coil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n LakeOzark,Missourah on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 12:36 am:

Is it possible you have a 3/1 gear ratio in the reared ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 12:52 am:

Hi Ted D. No distributor, no alternator, no
modern parts, just coils. I have a brand new coil, I might switch it out, and go down the line, and check all four.

George. I honestly do not know what the rear end gear ratio is. I never has cause to open up the rear end

Thanks, Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 01:23 am:

I doubt that the rear axle gear ratio has anything to do with this problem. That doesn't suddenly change. But if you don't know for sure that the rear axle has been rebuilt in recent years you need to make that a winter project. It has nothing to do with your current problem, but it's important.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html


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