9- NINE Tooth Pinion Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: 9- NINE Tooth Pinion Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By danny castle on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 10:35 am:

Trying to figure out how to get more Gear ....I have been -Going to be making some very steep Trail rides.. Have a home in Silverton Colorado & I am Taking my-T everywhere they did 80 years ago...I have a new Engine - makes great power at 300' elevation ...whole different story at 12,000'-13,000--not on highway either..dirt jeep trails.. SO.... has anyone used or have any input for me on 9 tooth pinion??? results are 4.44-1 rear ratio, I have a Warford in it.....The car will already go faster then I care too, I spent many years racing cars & have more fun now going slow!! from what I understand I can install the 9 tooth into differential using the exsisting Ring Gear & thats how you change Gear ratios / using different pinion tooth count ?? basically Im trying to make a Crawler gear with out having to Ride' the Low Pedal-- and if you were going to install a 9 tooth ..what parts, would you order at the same time to complete the install?? Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 10:47 am:

Danny

glad to see you going this route...4.44 is awfully low...maybe too low...might think of a 10 tooth pinion for 4:1.

I'd suggest calling Lang's and get their opinion. I say this because I am pretty certain that some of the Langs and others have driven some of the roads you intend to tackle...they've posted some impressive pix in the past. Ask them what they used for their gearing...

regards,

scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 11:16 am:

A 9 tooth is, except for time, going to cost a lot less then a good Ruckstell. Unless you know the builder you might still have time involved in tearing down to inspect. They can get expensive real fast if parts are needed.
The Warford and Ruckstell both can give you a gear in between Ford low and high you should sit down and figure out if there is much difference between the too, before you take the plunged.
The real question here is which Warford do you have? There is more then one Warford. There are the two speeds, direct/under or direct/over and the 3 speeds; under/direct/over or is it the modern one?
Next question would be, do you have outside brakes? If you do not that needs to be figured into the cost. My OP and others; no T with added on transmission should be driven without extra outside brakes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By danny castle on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 12:56 pm:

Mark...I have the new KC unit.... I put the Disc Brake kit on the back, works excellent. of course not period correct but it will never be a show car..this is my first T and is amazing what it can do.. Mark do you know if indeed the 9 tooth will in fact work with the stock ring gear?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 01:35 pm:

Sorry I don't know the info re the 9 tooth. I was asking so people would know what you had installed. I am running stock rear end and original Warford but have not had enough drive time with it to really judge it's on the road with hills ability's. No matter if it will work, it will give a much higher engine RPM and slower road speed.
AS the car is fitted now, how does it drive in under drive Ford high? Chances are, if you are going on a club tour in Colorado, the cars in the group may be running Ruckstell's or other with standard rear end gearing. You could ask a question like for people doing "X" tour, how is your rear end setup? Send a note or call Dave Huson, he sells lots of parts in the classifieds and lives and drives a lot in the hills in Colorado.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 01:50 pm:

I run a 10 tooth pinion and a Chicago Under/direct/over trans on my speedster with a Fronty. Under drive can be useful on rugged off road excursions or when loading on a trailer. Pretty low for anything else but I've still encountered a few ugly situations where Ford Low with under drive was needed. Direct works great as a town gear and over drive will still take me faster than I care to go if I push it. If you plan on a crawler with a good but relatively stock motor the 9 tooth could be real handy and with you direct and over options you should still do any of the normal touring speeds. I'd go for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By danny castle on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 01:52 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By danny castle on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 01:53 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 02:43 pm:

Danny
I have reproduced a run of Bailey locking differentials for the T. Given your type of roads, perhaps you are interested


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 06:06 pm:

40 tooth ring X 9 tooth pinion will work and yield a 4.44 to 1 gear ratio I run them in my hill climb engines using the Ford Model T transmission. This engine was built to turn 4,000 plus RPM and will not live long, Itís a race car. Best guess it turns 55 mph @ 2,900 rpm.
.
You need to know what the Warford gear ratios are in under and over drive to know what the ratios are at the axles. That info is easy with a new Lanes Warford. However there were two different ratios offered. Which do you have? Then you can calculate what the wheel/tire size will yield in what gear.

Most of the Colorado guys that I know of that go up old roads and passes (off road trails) use 4 to 1 gears and a Ruckstell helps. You already have a Warford so you may to be better served with a 10 tooth pinion which should get you to a 3.25 to 1 in over drive or so, again depending on the Warford you have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By danny castle on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 06:34 pm:

great info Mike....going to do some research


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 06:50 pm:

Danny I read your wanted ad and did not read this original post real close. I went back and read this one again. Now I see what you are doing. Mike has some good points.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 07:54 pm:

I ran an original warford with 4:1 all over CA and the sierras, climb rate on a day could be from 1000 to 10000 feet. True it was a speedster but the engine was mostly stock low head, dist, oil pump, A cam, and carb. If I put it in warford low I could crawl up most anything ford high. Perhaps there is a difference in the gear ratios between the new warford and the originals? ? ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 08:42 pm:

I'm running a 10 tooth and a KC Warford in my 26 Tudor. Great combo for running the Montana passes. At 45 mph I'm turning 1680 rpm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 09:16 pm:

Wasnt the 9th pinion made for the Ts at greenfield village? Thee are rarely see speeds over 15mph
Twi guy i know have the lower gear ratio warfords and 10 tooth gear.
They have told me covers there trail trips to tours
Motors have new Z heads 280 cam.
Brakes are 1 rockies 1 AC Bennets
Both ditributers.
Were at appox 5000 elevation high deserts of Nevada
My next T biuld going be trail car so i be following this thread as well as following my friend cars setup


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert G. Hester Jr., Riverview, FL on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 09:26 pm:

Hi, Danny. Others have addressed your gearing questions pretty well. As to your loss of power at higher elevations, I'm sure you know this is due to the engine running too rich in the thinner air. Leaning the fuel mixture should help the power somewhat. Good luck with the gears. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By danny castle on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 10:09 pm:

Yep..I use the Air mixture adjustment on regular basis, my Engine is strong in my opinion.... but my house is just short of 10,000'and goes up quick from there..lol so power loss due to Oxygen levels is dramatic/ considering a small electric fuel pump as i often find myself in situations where im certain fuel becomes a issue...I read alot on this forum and of course that is key to ideas & solutions both , Thanks for the input guys!
.. brought my car down to Texas because the snow is already flying and the trails are starting to snow pack,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By danny castle on Sunday, October 15, 2017 - 10:12 pm:

Yep..I use the Air mixture adjustment on regular basis, my Engine is strong in my opinion.... but my house is just short of 10,000'and goes up quick from there..lol so power loss due to Oxygen levels is dramatic/ considering a small electric fuel pump as i often find myself in situations where im certain fuel becomes a issue...I read alot on this forum and of course that is key to ideas & solutions both , Thanks for the input guys!
.. brought my car down to Texas because the snow is already flying and the trails are starting to snow pack,


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