T book on stock brakes is needed

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: T book on stock brakes is needed
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 09:08 am:

Posting this form my kid! He is working on his 8th grade science fair project. He decided to do his project on the improvements of car brakes over the years. Part of the project requirement is a literature review. He is focusing and will do a comparison on modern Disk brakes, Drum Brakes and of course our Tís highly efficient band brake. I have about 8 or so books, and only one has a little bit of information regarding the Tís brakes.

Anyone know of a good book(s) that has any decent mention of how the brakes work, theory, or anything else? It does sound like he can use other forms of information, such as interviews, documentaries, web based articles, and so forth.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 10:45 am:

They are so simple, not much needs to be written!
The Ford Service book is all that's needed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 10:53 am:

Jason,Have him take a set of lined bands to school for the show and tell.If you could also send a early unlined rear wheel brake shoe?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 11:08 am:

Jason, the brake is simply a band that tightens around a drum in the transmission. It is tightened by a set of cams on the outside of the transmission cover that pull the pedal shaft outward when the pedal is pressed.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 11:09 am:

Maybe try and find a copy of Dyke's automobile encyclopedia.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 11:23 am:

Jason,

I think that evolution of a band on the drive train to ABS would be a good outline.(with all the stuff in between that you mentioned)
And emphasizing that any failure of the T's drive line would render the braking useless. Henry's stubbornness leaving Lizzie a "horseless carriage" when the automotive world had passed it by not coming out with 4 wheel brakes till the Model A and then being so stubborn with mechanical to hydraulic brake systems.(and I know when they work correctly the mechanical systems can work well) Ford being the leader for car sales for so long but in what we would consider today way behind in basic safety/operation advancement.

I would think for most young people they would be amazed to think that at one time most people drove a car that was one step from Fred Fintstone's feet on the pavement in stopping.

:-)Fred stopping


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 11:24 am:

I agree T brakes are very simple, but teachers do set requirements for them, and if they do not follow or meet the requirements they get points docked off.

We are planning to open the hogs head on the spare engine and take some photos, along with taking photos of some old bands that I have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 11:30 am:

I was reading his notes and found interesting. I do not recall the dates off the top of my head. But in 1906 or 1908, Henry tried hydraulic brakes in this development car/T, and the brake line failed. Hence Henry determined it was unreliable and went with the Bands.

If I remember, I will ask to see his notes and post his source for this information.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:17 pm:

One of the neat things to consider with Model T brakes is that they work through the drive train. While we all know this, it's interesting to consider what that really means. It means that the rear end gear ratio, (3.63:1), actually aids in the overall braking effort. Just as that ratio gives the engine and "advantage" in accelerating, so to does the ratio give an advantage in braking. In other words, the brake torque generated within the transmission is multiplied by a factor 3.63 before it gets to the wheels. That's why, for those of you who have a Ruckstell and happen to make a stop while in low range, the braking is even better still. Conversely, with a 3:1 gear set, you actually loose a little braking effort.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 10:16 pm:

Jason

Be sure to add contracting external drum brakes from the list of improvements. Early cars used external contracting bands on the rear drums. Then that improved to internal shoes, (to keep mud and water off the brakes) and finally to disc type on rotors, i.e. back to external location :-)




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 05:19 pm:

Jason,

Will any of the pictures found by clicking on this link help the youngster?

If so, I believe that you (or he) can find a way to copy and print them...it is HIS project, right ?:-)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Brakes+Model+T+Ford&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ve d=0ahUKEwiSyIigyvjWAhWJ54MKHTOiBegQ_AUICygC&biw=1299&bih=929

Good Luck to both of you :-) :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 07:14 pm:

There are some good images in the group.

We downloaded a number of images last week. I had to help, as I know what to look for.


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