What determines the year of a Model T?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: What determines the year of a Model T?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gus on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:27 pm:

If a Model T has a 1924 body, a 1922 engine, and a 1922 title, what is it considered? I know that from a DMV standpoint that since there is no VIN on a Model T that the engine serial number is what identifies they year of the vehicle. I would consider it a 1924 Model T, but the owner is adamant that it is a 1922.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:32 pm:

Since it is already titled as a 22 I would leave it as a 22,those who need to know will, those who don't will guess. I have a 25 with a 26 engine titled as a 25 by the previous owner the engine ser# matches what was on the old title so DMV didn't question it here. Remember the DMV people by and large are NOT car people, so why go looking for a headache when you don't need to?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 01:37 pm:

Depends on your state. I have a 22 with a 26 engine and I got the engine number changed but it is still registered as a 22. Unless there is some good reason to change it, I would just leave as is. The reason I had mine changed is because the vin number did not match.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gus on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 02:24 pm:

G.R. and Norm, thanks for your help. I guess that I should point out that this Model T is on display and the plaque on it says that it is a 1922. So my question isn't about how to title the vehicle, it is how would you represent it if you were to put in on display?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Strickling on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 02:34 pm:

Since it looks like a 24, the plaque should say 24.

There is a clown in my area that has a 1914 touring bodied car but he claims the title says 1910 so he puts it in car shows and says it is a 10. Most local judges don't know any better. It is up to us to educate people. If all they get to see is the body, then call it a 1924.

As far as the title goes, who cares. If the title and engine number match, it is legal and sellable when the time comes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 02:35 pm:

Let sleeping dogs lie. The less u have to do with the DMV the better!!

It took me a month + to get my speedster registered. The first time in the clerk I got didn't know a motor scooter from an eighteen wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 03:13 pm:

For display, as in a show or a museum, call it what it really is. If it's a 1924 based on that year's features (other than the engine that's been installed in it), I would let people know that's what it is. The differences between a 1922 and a 1924 are pretty glaring, so I wouldn't foist the misidentification by clueless bureaucrats on the public.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 03:28 pm:

I have a friend with a T built in 1924. The engine was replaced with a 1919 unit. It's still a 1924, and titled as such.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gus on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 05:10 pm:

The issue is that a well meaning person purchased this automobile specifically because it was a 1922 Model T Ford, as that date represented a significant date in their personal history. This particular Model T was titled, and represented as a 1922 Model T Ford Coupe by the seller. It was obvious that as soon as I seen it I knew it wasn't a 1922. Now it is proudly on display with a plaque identifying it as a genuine 1922 Model T Ford Coupe. I guess if they are happy thinking it's a 1922 Model T Ford, then who am I to tell them otherwise?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 06:02 pm:

This is a question I've had in the past as well. About 2 years ago I bought a T that had been titled as a 1912 and I was happy with that. However, when I talked to several other T owners that had similar cars I began to do some research in Bruce McCalley's book, Model T Ford, the car that changed the world. As I read his comments from each model year it became apparent that the model year of a Model T varied somewhat from year to year and wasn't always based on Ford's fiscal year. For example he says in his book, page 79, that the model year for the 1911 was November, 1910 through December, 1911. He wrote that the model year for a 1914 Model T was from August, 1913 through January, 1915. Also, to add to the question, as soon as I had the car here in my garage I immediately began taking it apart to paint it the correct color. When I bought the car it was "Home Depot" orange. Couldn't drive a T like that, so now it's the correct dark blue body and black fenders. As I began taking the car apart I removed the interior seat covers and door panels. I had been told the car was painted about 40 or 50 years ago and on the inside of both rear doors was written in chalk, "1911 Touring". When the car was painted I made sure the "1911" remained in place. I took the car and McCalley's book to our sheriff's office, then to our tax office, which they then passed the question along to the State of Texas DMV and they agreed with McCalley and issued a new title for 1911. Also, the body number for the car is very plainly stamped on the bottom of both doors telling me the body as made in August, 1911 and the casting date on the engine is November 22, 1911. There is no question that the previous owner of this car knows a lot more about the Model T than I do but I think I'll go with the book that is usually referred to as the Bible on the Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Monday, October 16, 2017 - 06:20 pm:

Wow.! I love this! The Ford Service Bulletin, September 1923, carried this note "New Type Model "T" Bodies."

Quote, " The recent changes in design of Ford Cars have obsoleted all previous type bodies, and it will be necessary when supplying the new bodies in replacement to include the new type radiator, apron, radiator rod, hood...and dash."

From the notice, individuals with an older Ford could have it re-bodied with a new model year body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gus on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 07:56 am:

George, that is an absolutely gorgeous T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Stryker on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 08:39 am:

Franken-T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 08:58 am:

Yes, that 1911 looks a LOT better than it used to, and the combination of setting and lighting makes that a great photo of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 09:07 am:

Gus,

The year of a particular Model T is usually determined by a self appointed expert. :-O)

Honestly though, I usually figure that the year is presented by the body. If it has a 1910 body, it's a 1910. It may have lots of reproduction or incorrect parts, but to me, it's a 1910, just not a fully authentic one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 09:41 am:

Gus,

Agreeing with Jerry's comment and for the reasons others have said, I call my Touring a "1914" because that is what it looks like; a 1914 style Beaudette Touring car.

The car was assembled during July of 1913, titled 1913 and the previous owner called it a '13. He wasn't wrong but explaining is more than most care to hear. The serial is #312,4XX, casting date June 19, 1913 and both are well within "1913".

As a helpful bit of information to dating some of the cars up through at least 1914 like John's beautiful car above, there is one real "production line date" on those cars if they have their original engines.

The actual date is on the transmission stub shaft and usually is about a week or two prior to engine assembly and placement into a car.



The serial number, #312,4XX is six days later so: the block casting date, June 19th, transmission stub shaft date, July 11th and car assembly date, July 17, 1913, line up on mine just as they should. Also, that date tends to confirm that the engine assembly is an original unit.

It is likely that the lag time from casting of the engine block to final assembly in a car is at least a month or two in the earlier years. Sometime that transmission date is in Roman numerals made with a chisel.

However, mine is still a 1914 to me.

Ken in Texas

(Message edited by drkbp on October 17, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Perkins / St. Croix Valley Mn on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 10:00 am:

I purchased my 1912 ten years ago from a man who insisted that was the correct year. The motor # is B-334 (Oct 1912) and the car did have many small details from 1912 but obviously had a 1913 body. I always called it a 13 but had some explaining to do when I sold it and the buyer balked at the 1912 title. All was well in the end however. The buyer did repaint the body and chassis correct colors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 11:03 am:

The T that Perkins owned was always known by local club members as a 1913 . I do not know how it be came to be known as a 1912. All B number Ts are 1913. Jerry Glubkee owned this T for many years. He was a fireman in St. Paul, MN. This T came out of northern MN along with a 1910 roadster in a 1915 Town Car in the mid 1950s. The 1910 was sold out of state. The 1915 is still here in MN.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Perkins / St. Croix Valley Mn on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 11:31 am:

Darel, Herm B. (Remember him?) advertised the car in the local T newsletter as a 1912. The title also listed the car as a 1912. Herm called it a 12. I do not know what the other owners before him called the car, I always referred to it as a 1913. Quite the color combo the prior owners chose! Seems that was a popular thing to do in the 50s as I also had a 14 once that has a red chassis.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration