Working on generator

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Working on generator
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 08:09 am:

I'm working on the generator for the '23. Have never worked on a generator before but was able to get the starter up and going well, so feel I should be able to get the generator going.

Turned the armature on a lathe and checked out the field coils which are ok. Installed new sealed bearings and am replacing the insulating plates under the third brush assembly. I see people using copper pop rivets. Do I have to use those? Can't I used regular aluminum pop rivets? The brushes, housings and springs look good and am going to use them again. I need to clean the interior of the body holding the field windings. The windings are in good condition and I don't want to ruin them.. What should I use?

I'll assemble the generator this week and then need to do the "neutral" adjustment. Can I do this with the generator on the bench before I install it on the engine?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 08:43 am:

Mark,

I think you have to do the neutral adjustment on the bench. I believe the very nature of the test and setting requires the gen to spin freely until the neutral point is found.

I don't like the idea of pop-rivets here, (just a personal preference with no real reason attached), but it's been so darn long since I've done this, I can't say for sure what was used.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 08:46 am:

By the way, after turning the commutator, did you undercut the mica? I don't have a true undercutting device, so I do it rather crudely, with a thinned hack saw blade. Yes, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I can say that it has worked. Patience is the key.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 09:03 am:

Mark: There is another generator post currently on the forum that might help: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/799070.html?1508190516

I borrowed information from Ron Patterson when I rebuilt my generator. Mike Bender has a good video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Psk4hK3gU

If you need an endplay spring washer, let me know, I'll send you one, I had to purchase a 10 pac when I did mine. best, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 09:03 am:

Jerry, I am fine with small tube rivets for this ... will look around. As far as undercutting, I was ready to do this and when I took the armature to the generator / starter motor shop and asked them about it they said it's better for that to be smooth on a generator rather than under cut. So I left it as is. Now I'm confused?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 09:07 am:

Mark: Definitely do the undercut! best, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 09:18 am:

Mark,

If the copper wears away even by the slightest amount it can leave the mica standing high, which then supports the brushes and holds them away from the commutator segments.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 10:48 am:

Ok ... here's the scoop. I took the armature to a specialist and they told me that the piece had so little wear that the undercutting was still well below the copper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 10:55 am:

Excellent!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 11:27 am:

For others reading, I came across this bit of information; the mica only needs to be undercut 1/2 the width. So if the mica is for example, 1/16" wide you should only need to undercut it 1/32" approx.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 12:21 pm:

I had once read somewhere that you undercut on a starter, but not a generator or maybe it was the other way around. Don't remember, but the advice was that you did it to one, but not the other. I have no idea why, or if it was good advice. It would be interesting to know the theory, even if it were a bad one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 12:48 pm:



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 12:51 pm:

Hal

The starters have a sintered metal brush and the generator brushes are very soft carbon. That is the difference, and why you undercut generators and not starters.

Note: If you undercut only 1/2 of the width of generator mica on a Model T, you will not be happy with the results after it has been placed into service for awhile.

My last batch of rewound armatures came with very poorly cut mica and had to all be completely redone. Attention to detail or care for a job well done are vanishing commodity's these days


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 12:55 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 12:59 pm:

O.K., one more then I'll let it go:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122717


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