In the first picture, is this of great concern, can this main cap be used?
In the second picture this is the main bearing in the block, can this crack be filled with something or am I doomed to pouring new metal?
I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't run with that Babbitt. It looks like the engine is out, so I'd say do what can as long as it is out.
IMO - the cap is DONE ! The second photo is not a crack but the oil galley to feed the crankshaft.
Those bearings are simply wore out and must be replaced. The oil galley is only 1/3 of it original width. It is closed by babbitt that has "moved" from wear.
I'm new at these poured bearings ,besides the crack I thought the bearings looked like they were worn perfectly. The rest of the bearings including the Rods look worn evenly just the same but you say they are worn out? Correct me if I'm wrong and I'm not being facetious but if I can adjust all these bearings to the proper clearance excluding the cracked cap I can't use them?
I will be made to regret this,I'm sure.
Doug what are you going to do with this T?
Full blown,no expense spared restoration?
Ocean to Ocean endurance run?
Or just get it running well for running around the neighborhood?
If the latter, I have successful foiled,scraped and fitted one helluva lot worse.
In probably two dozen T engine I have freshened up,I NEVER had a bearing issue that was not anticipated normal wear.Some are still running after 30 years.
Not every T needs a two or three thousand dollar rebuild.
Successfully filed and scraped,should say.
Bearing scraping is now a lost art.
Jim when you say file do you mean filing the bearing caps like it says in the service manual?
And no Jim it's not a no expense spared resto, just want to get it running to drive it occasionally around town. It will most likely spend most of its time sitting in the garage
Doug, your babbits look beautiful compared with what I had to work with in 1970. When I first got my 1926 T coupe in 1970, at the age of 16 and was doing a frame off restoration, there was no internet and I had no money so, I had to make do with my instincts and do the best I could with what I had. When I was taking the engine apart and removed the crankshaft, the babbits were all grey, soft and powdery. I knew they could be poured because I was using the Model T Service manual as a guide and there were illustrations in there of someone pouring them, but even if I knew someone who could pour new babbits, there was still the question of how to pay for it. Knowing that Henry Ford designed the Model T to be very forgiving, I decided to try and salvage my babbits, so, I got a razor blade and, with the flat blade, I scraped the soft, powdery babbit down until it became hard and shiny. Then I sanded it to remove all scratches. I did all of the babbit surfaces this way and when it came time to fit the crankshaft, I did one bearing at a time, removing shims until it was tight, then added one or two until it turned. I completed the restoration and the car ran perfectly for 40 years, with no knocks until 2010 when I did another restoration and this time, I could afford to have new babbits poured, so in answer to your question, I would say yes. If you shim the crankshaft in properly, you should be able to use those babbits. Just my opinion. Jim Patrick
Yes,filing the caps.
Scraping the bearings may not be necessary.
I wish every T owner had a copy of the book Model T FordOwner. This is a compilation of articles from FordOwner magazine from the T era.
I am suspicious that engine was repaired somewhere along the line.How are the bores? The valve seats?
Keep in mind,the wear in T cylinders is in the middle.
I pm'ed you.
The engine defiantly needs work, new oversize valves, springs, new rings, cam gear but the block seems solid still have to measure the bores
Looks like they've been running a little loose, check the crank for out-of-round, if it's not, then you can probably use those. The "chip" can be glued in, to keep it on place until the crank is in and keeps it there. You might want to check the oil holes and make certain they are clear, and widen that oil groove that now looks like a crack. For a "drive it around town once in a blue moon" car, you'll likely get decades of service out of it.
Does anyone have pictures of the block mains so I can see what those oil grooves are suppose to look like
Frank is that groove only in the center main?
No Doug, it's in all 3, cut in with a milling machine but also easy enough to cut with a electric wood router, take your time to clamp a length of wood to the block for a guide, set the depth, you don't need much and don't run it to the end of the bearing, about 70% is enough.
Hand fitting bearings is a dying art. But it can be done, and done well if you consider what you are doing and what the engine needs. I have done about a dozen of them over the years. Some I only got to keep for a short time, and used little. A few I drove hard for several years and never had trouble with them.
I suspect from looking at that oil groove, that it is not a migration of Babbitt, I don't see other tell-tale signs of that. But I suspect that it was done by someone that did not really know what they were doing, and therefore did it improperly. That, unfortunately, raises a red flag. If they didn't know enough to cut that groove properly? What makes one think that they did anything else right? Actually, though, mostly the bearings look pretty good, so it becomes a "crap-shoot".
If it were me? I would try to rework (note that word) the motor. Check everything, especially the straightness and roundness and fit of the bore. If I didn't find anything too far out (yes, the model T engine is VERY forgiving of mediocre repairs), I would continue forward till done.
One very important thing not mentioned often enough. The center main bearing tends to wear higher than the other two. This is because of how it is placed between two cylinders with one or the other almost always pulling the crankshaft up. You should use a machinist quality straight edge to check the relative position of the center main to both the front and rear mains. If the alignment is not excellent, you are begging to join the two-piece crank club. If it is down (up?) even a .001 inch? Cut the front and rear to match the middle. That involves slow and careful finishing and fitting all around. Another thing. That main cap with the chip out of it? May work fine. But I would prefer to get another, and fit it to match the block. Beg or borrow several of them. Check for fit (centered etc), and rework the one that comes closest and looks to be the best. If you are beginning with caps that were line bored to fit the block? It should be an easy refit. I usually start with nice blocks with good Babbitt that have lost their original caps, and have to do a full refit on all three.
Another thing. A pet gripe of mine for a long time. Be honest. DO NOT refer to the engine as "rebuilt". That implies that everything has been redone new and machined fresh. It has a meaning to many people. When I talk about my engines, and especially if and when I have to sell the car, I call the engine "re-worked", and then follow that with a full explanation of what was or was not done. It usually costs me a few dollars on the sale, but I sleep better. Besides. I saved those few dollars up front, so I really lose nothing.
But that is me.
My babbit is worse and I drive mine regularly. You could re-use that one if the crankshaft is encompassed by the bearings and doesn't bend while doing so. I've soldered worn bearings to make up for wear and fitted them. Run for years like that too. Ideally don't use solder, or any metal with lead in it.
It might just run ok, you may have to scrape the bearings either side to get the crank to lay perfectly flat... In which case your crank gear might get closer to the cam (plastic cam gear in nylon might be required then? not sure, never used one)
Just my 02 cents but two real experts have said it is worn out but you are paying the bill! It's a matter of time so how lucky do you feel??
Lang’s sells rebabbited caps that are not too costly so if you are going the cheap take your chances route then just maybe you should be fitting a cap with better babbit. Just my 2 cents.
Needs new Babbitt for sure!
You need to mike the crankshaft and get it magnafluxed. Then you need to decide whether to patch it or completely rebuild it. Your rod journals are likely tapered and out of round, if so then you need to have them ground. Mains are likely OK.
There is no need to spend $3000 to get it rebuilt. You should be able to get the crank ground and block rebored and rebabbitted for less than $1000. You should be able to do all the other work yourself. A local shop could install hardened valve seats and rebore the cylinders if need be.
Thanks Ted, I did mike the crank, it's in really nice shape, (hung it from a string and slightly tapped it with a hammer), it rung nicely. I'm going to disassemble the 26 engine I have to see what the bearings look like. I really didn't want to use a later model engine but if the babbitt is better in that one I might go with it
The Liberty Bell rings too. The ring test means nothing.
I've always said that you should use the ring test to fail a crank, not to pass one.
If it rings like a bell, take it to get magnafluxed. If it just goes thud, then don't bother because it's trash anyway.
The only way a ring test will tell you anything is if, half the crank is on the string, and the other half is on the floor!
no Jerry the liberty bell doesn't ring , its cracked
Cameron is correct.
The Liberty Bell, struck with a mallet, June 6, 1944.
If the crank doesn't ring, it's cracked. If it rings, it may well be cracked. Always magnaflux.
They rang the Liberty Bell for years and years with that crack, and finally quit around 1830 as I recall.