Please help ID this engine

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Please help ID this engine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:20 pm:







I was told this is a 26/27 engine, there is no way of telling for sure because it has no serial # or casting date, does anyone no why?
I decided to disassemble this one to see how the babbitt is since everyone is telling me that my 1920 engine has wiped out bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:25 pm:

Trans pedals and water outlet look like 26-27


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:26 pm:

Hogs head bolts to back of block...26-27


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:39 pm:

Also 26/7 fan pulley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, San Diego near the Presidio on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:39 pm:

Water outlet is early '26


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:41 pm:

Scott, you nailed it, since that is actually part of the block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 06:46 pm:

The two bolts at the top of the hogs head into the block indicate 26/27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 07:05 pm:

Why doesn't it have a casting or serial number, could it have been a replacement engine bought from a dealer?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James M. Riedy, Sandusky, Ohio on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:08 pm:

I can't see a generator so with the block-off plate for the starter it could be a early non electric engine or a replacement engine meant for a power plant with hand crank only. A closer shot of the boss above the water inlet might show something of a serial number. But it is definitely a improved model engine. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:30 pm:

Ford USA stopped putting casting dates on engine blocks around 1922, so no casting date for a '26/'27 is normal. Canadian engines continued to get casting dates through most of production. Replacement blocks did not get serial numbers, so that the original engine's serial number could be stamped onto the replacement block by the repair shop. Many such blocks had a "dual "ford" script" stamped onto the serial number embossment to help identify them as replacements. However, some did not have that. Full replacement engines often had their own serial number. Also, Ford sold both complete engines and various levels of short block engines for industrial uses. Those also show up occasionally. Many of them got odd short serial numbers, often with a letter or two indicating who assigned the short number. Some replacement or special use engines seem to have gone through with no numbers or stampings on the embossment at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 08:46 pm:

Thanks James and Wayne, it does have a generator. Are all the components on this engine interchangeable with the older engines, cam ,crank etc. Can the pedals in the hogs head be switched to the smaller ones to match my car or can I just put the whole hogs head right on?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 09:11 pm:

The improved car has a wider brake band, so the hog's head is different in that the hole for the brake pedal is a bit different so as to line up to the center of the wider band.

You'd want to fit older pedals to the existing hog's head for the proper look in an older car, which is what I think you're asking.

You do not want to fit an older hog's head to this engine as it will not bolt up to the back of the engine, which provides necessary stiffness that is lost when they went to the 4 dip pan. As a point of interest, I have a '23 with an original hog's head but later brake drum (really stuffed in there!). The brake band is the original narrow band and rides on only 2/3 of the brake drum. I am about to pull this engine down as it was rebuilt about 25 years ago and only started twice since then (by me, recently). That darn transmission is nearly silent, and I'm really wondering if I want/need to change the wide drum back to narrow. We'll see how the whole engine looks and if the narrow bands really work as designed before I make that decision. The car runs and stops fine...so we'll see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 09:24 pm:

Thank you Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 09:32 pm:

Is it just the camera angle and my imagination, or do the pedals in the second picture look longer and spaced wider to anyone else???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 09:33 pm:

And,I'd better add,than standard 26-7.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 09:42 pm:

One more thing...with the hole through the casting for the throttle rod, This engine is probably intended for about 10/25 through '26. Am pretty sure the '27 blocks were typically solid through that area and were fitted with vaporizer carbs, using a different throttle rod and linkage that went over the engine rather than through it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 09:59 pm:

It really looks like a Ford Model T engine, but correct me if I am wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, San Diego near the Presidio on Monday, October 23, 2017 - 11:47 pm:

I canít see it well, but the front cover appears to be later 26, the one without a fan arm adjustment. It would need to be changed to an earlier version


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n LakeOzark,Missourah on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 12:15 am:

If water outlet is original to engine than I would say early '26. That Jackscrew type of adjustment was on early 26's. as I understand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 03:33 am:

I think the engine build date can be pinpointed to about the first weeks of February 1926 if the timing cover and fan adjuster is original to the engine. Here's my thinking:

The Encyclopedia lists info Bruce McAlley have found that may be when a new part or change was decided/designed, when production of a new part was started or when the part or change was implemented at the assembly line and those times differ. Often only info of one of these times are available.

For dating of this '26 engine it's interesting it has the newer style timing cover without the old style fan adjusting boss while it still has the first clamp style 1926 fan adjuster. The encyclopedia says the new timing cover was adopted February 1, presumably on the assembly line.

A later paragraph from February 6 tells that production of the first 1926 style fan adjuster ended on January 30th while production of the new style started on Jan. 29. Thus the supply of the old style in transit and at the assembly plant had to be used up until all production got the new style, so it's likely this engine was made the first (or second?) week of February.

Ford didn't send any info about the new style fan adjuster to the dealers until February 23, since it took about a week until the completed engines was in a car, and another week until the first ones were at the dealers.

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc26.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 08:00 am:

As others have stated, it has too many unique features for a '26 engine to be anything else but.

Picture photographs can be deceiving, yet if a zoom up is done, it sure looks like there are shadows in-line where a serial number would be...and anyone guess as to why a serial number would be ground off without another being added. (There is an acid coin collectors use to use to 'stain' where stamped metal would have been...don't know if still available)

As far as the pedals, I'll give you something to think about...I have one car with a '27 engine in it, but the floorboard arrangement is for the narrow pedal design. Someone before I bought it, bent the brake pedal to 'fit' the spacing they had! I have to say, those pedal tops are nice with the shoe cleat...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 01:51 pm:

Ford Motor Company supplied floor boards spaced for the 26-27 transmission pedal for the earlier cars,when installing new 26-27 engines in said earlier cars.
I had a NOS set I used for a pattern.Wish I would have kept them.


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