Tried to use my New Day timer

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Tried to use my New Day timer
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 09:20 pm:

I tried to install a New Day timer today. After putting on the brush and connecting the wires I discovered that my control rod is not long enough from the bend to the hole for the cotter pin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Gelfer, Milwaukee WI on Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 09:26 pm:

You need to re-bend it. There are some inexpensive tools that help,and are available from all the T vendors. Timer rod bending is something that is guaranteed to make you curse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 09:39 pm:

Vise. BFH. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Hand on Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 09:46 pm:

A BFH is a great tool to have if you own a Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 10:00 pm:

Before you start bending anything - you'd better ensure your ignition timing is correctly set ... then bend the rod to reach the timer hole without disturbing the setting. Otherwise there may be a damaged arm or starter in your future.

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 10:11 pm:

We covered that in another discussion, but I'll repeat this in case it got lost.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Friday, October 27, 2017 - 12:30 am:

Steve, On some crankshafts the pulley pin hole was drilled vertical. Your method is correct 99.9 percent of the time for the pin to be horizontal. I think the vertical drilled hole may have been a 26-27 feature of some crankshafts, but I have not found out why some pins are horizontal and some vertical. Probably was a different crankshaft manufacture technique (???) as not all crankshafts were made by Ford. My 1927 touring has a vertical pin in an EE style crankshaft stamped "Ford" but none of my other EE crankshafts have a vertical pin. So its just something to be aware of.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Friday, October 27, 2017 - 02:01 am:

Tommy, go to just about any grave yard and you will find a stack of the easels used for the display of flowers. Ask the caretaker. Some are 1/4 inch diameter, some are made of smaller stock. 1/4 is what you want. Use your old rod as a pattern and bend a new rod with a longer end. You will probably have to heat the ends to bend the 90’s and the holes for the pins are a little tricky, but not bad. One easel will render several rods or attempts. If you had rather stay out of the grave yard, for now, your local florist probably has some with a little rust they will donate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Friday, October 27, 2017 - 03:54 am:

I think that some of the responses above have misunderstood the question. Either that or I have!
I think Tommy's problem is not (yet) timing; it is just installation - putting the rod end through the lug on the timer and inserting the cotter pin.
With a vice, he could rebend the end, but the rod might break. Heat may be desirable.
He could drill a further split-pin hole, if there's enough rod. Drill it at 90 degrees to the original.
He could file or possibly countersink the timer body.
Or he could follow Donny's advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, October 27, 2017 - 09:24 am:

A vice and a pair of channel locks works very well. Just takes lots of trial and error sometimes. Be sure it doesn't rub under the water inlet pipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, October 27, 2017 - 10:21 am:


Also be sure the top terminal screw doesn't ground against the rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Friday, October 27, 2017 - 11:50 am:

Timer rods come off Model Ts bent in just about every conceivable way and yet the correct way is exceedingly easy. The main problem is that almost everybody has an outside oil line that they install right smack in the path of the timer rod and instead of carefully spending a bit of time forming that oil line out of the way or better yet putting it on the OTHER side of the motor and dumping the oil into the oil filler hole they instead start bending the timer rod and that is where the problems begin. There is also a problem that contributes to wrong timer rod path and that is the lower radiator hose and clamp being in the wrong place to start with. If you really want to solve this problem completely as I wanted to then you should start with a new properly made timer rod and they are being made very accurately the last time I checked at Lang's.

Step 1) get a new timer rod
Step 2) get the oil line off and out of the way for the moment.
Step 3) install the timer rod without bending it and see where the rod passes under the lower radiator hose and clamp. The timer rod should completely clear the END of the hose and the clamp that is there. Generally the hose is way too long and positions the clamp in the wrong place too and this is the first thing that obstructs the travel of the timer. Cut about 1/2 to 1" off the tube end of the hose and re-position the radiator tube in the upper hose end if necessary. The timer rod should always be completely behind the end of the hose and thus the clamp too.
Step 4) put the timer rod in the timer you are using and run the timer lever up and down full travel and you should now not hit anything end to end.
Step 5) set the timing by turning on the ignition and slowly pulling up on the hand crank until any coil starts to buzz and STOP just the moment it buzzes and look at the pin at the front of the motor and verify that the pin is sitting a wee bit down on the right side like at 3:15 or 3:30 o'clock. If it is before 3:15 then you need to lengthen the rod but if it is after 3:15 you need to shorten the rod BUT HERE IS WHAT YOU DO. The rod has an arc to it that is a smooth bend in a flat plane and is above the timer on the timer end of the rod. You simply pull that arc wider to lengthen it by grasping the rod at the timer end and at the end of the arc. To shorten the rod you reduce that arc by squeezing it together at the same two places. That is all you need to do just increase or decrease that arc and the rod will still clear everything. If you have accessory items in the way or mixed year parts then you might have issues but if your T is stock that is how you do the job.
step 6) Get the oil line re-connected by rerouting it with a slightly sharper bend or shortening the bottom end a wee bit so that the end connects and stays down or to the side out of the way of the timer rod. Those oil tubes are usually copper and bend rather easily.

I have early and late cars and this method has always worked for me and often the timing is darn near correct with a new timer rod to start with so long as you don't bend it at all until you get it hooked up at both ends. I have run Ford Roller, Newday, TW, and Anderson and they all seem to be very near to each other such that I have generally not bothered to do more than check the timing rather than have to reset it. So long as the pin wound up being a wee bit lower on the right side than the left (3:15 O'clock) when the coils first start to buzz, I knew the ignition wasn't going to kick back and hurt me.

Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Friday, October 27, 2017 - 11:55 am:

OOPS. Forgot something.

Step 4)put the timer rod in the timer you are using and run the timer lever up and down full travel and you should now not hit anything end to end. LEAVE THE LEVER FULLY UP.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Friday, October 27, 2017 - 02:45 pm:

Steve, from looking at the good clear picture of your New Day timer and rod, it appears that my rod has broken through the cotter pin hole and a new hole drilled.Therefore the ear on the ND timer is too thick for my rod to connect . I have to flatten the ears on the original type timers I'm using. I am going to order a few things from Lang's soon, and a new rod will be added to my list.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, October 29, 2017 - 12:33 am:

That rod looks perfect to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Addington on Sunday, October 29, 2017 - 09:57 am:

Just curious as to why no one has ever put a small turn buckle in the rod? This seems like it would make the adjusting process a lot easier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, October 29, 2017 - 10:24 am:

The early rods have threaded swivel joints, which I assume are adjustable. I suspect their elimination was a ˘ost ˘utting measure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 06:45 pm:

I got a new rod today, from Lang's. Tomorrow I will put the New Day timer on and try it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C-west central, MN on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 08:44 pm:

Keep us posted.


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