Triple gear bushing conundrum

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Triple gear bushing conundrum
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 - 08:19 pm:

Well, I've found my nice quiet transmission (with no mag output) was actually blown up, with 1 bent magnet, 4 sheared off screws and as many keepers somehow lodged out of harm's way. Now I know why it was put away into the barn! And am glad I only drove around the neighborhood for a day before re-retiring it until now.

Anyway, I have 2 of 3 triple gears with spun bushings. Flywheel pins are just fine, but those !@#$ spinning bushings...Those two gears measure 1.001 ID and I suspect that when I order bushings, the interference fit will not be what I'm looking for. Does anyone know the nominal OD of a new/unused triple gear bushing?

thank you


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 - 09:25 pm:

Scott,

I sent you a PM then decided to take a walk and get your answer.

I'm not sure how many bush makers there are...but this one is



and I measured 0.0025" less at 90 degrees. By definition, this is undersized...gnats. I'll go check some others tomorrow

(Message edited by George_nj on October 31, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry & Sharon Miller, Westminster, CO on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 - 10:03 pm:

Scott,

Dave Huson is selling triple gears in the classifieds. I have a set and they appear to be in very good to excellent shape. I say appear to be since I have not measured them or did any microscopic inspection. I trust Dave and I will thoroughly inspect them when/if I need them during upcoming two transmission rebuilds.

Price is good as well.

Good Luck,
Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 08:02 am:

Scott:
Before there were replacement triple gears we had to reuse the best we could find. Often times the bushings were spun out of them causing triple gears to be worn oversize. What to do?

Easiest remedy is to knurl to outside diameter of the bushing. Doing so increases the outside diameter or if you don't have the tools to do so then Loctite 603 or Loctite 638 will work. Depending on your clearance between bushing and gear as 603 is within .005" and 638 will take up to .015".
I believe. Both work well and are capable of higher temperatures than the T can generate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 10:11 am:

When I had this problem, I took a new bushing, pressed an old pin through it and then pressed it into the gear. The pin swelled the bushing and a very nice fit was achieved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 10:12 am:

I have one that they used shim stock to hold the bushing in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 10:29 am:

You could always make new bushings from scratch, with an appropriate O.D. I would want a .001/.002 press fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 10:35 am:

Hi Jerry

I could do just that...am lazy though, :-) and am hoping to be able to use Bob's z-bronze bushings...I do not know if I could find or afford that precise low-lead material.

Now, with that said, to others who may be lurking, please let's not debate whether or not a z bronze equivalent is available to the hobby. I've reviewed a number of contentious threads on the subject and am convinced that Bob's is offering as close to the real deal as is possible.

Many thanks to all who have responded


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 11:15 am:

Scott,

Not sure how many commercial platers you have in Wyoming, but you could have the I.D.'s built up with electroless nickel. It's a very predictable process in that precise thicknesses can built up. It's not great for adding a lot of material, but if you need .0005 or .001, it's just the thing. Of course, you'll want to mask the gear teeth from the plating. Motorcycle restorers use it for nickel plated cylinders because it will plate evenly, right down between cooling fins, where electroplating is ineffective.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Wednesday, November 01, 2017 - 07:13 pm:

Thanks Jerry

I actually oversaw the use of electroless nickle plating when I was still had a real j**.

We did a ion deposition of chrome onto ceramic, then ion deposition of copper to the chrome, followed by electroless nickle to the copper. The Elnic solution was troublesome to keep in balance and the part shape we were doing was challenging.

But back to your point, there are more cows than people here and no platers for hundreds of miles (not like my old place in FL where I could drop off to at least 3 places within 10 miles!)

regards


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Thursday, November 02, 2017 - 10:16 am:

You could:
1. use a Loctite bearing retainer. (I think it's number 680 or the like.)
2. Or press a resizer pin through the bushing before installing it. You can stretch a bushing by .002" easily.
3. Or cut two O-ring style groves in the ID of the gear, install the bushing then press a resizer pin through the busing instead of reaming to size.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Thursday, November 02, 2017 - 10:42 am:

Scott,

I guess I was "preaching to the choir". That's interesting stuff! Lot's of talent on this forum!!


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