Water in cylinder 1 and 2

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Water in cylinder 1 and 2
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Van Cott on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 01:06 pm:

Hello, I completely rebuilt my 1914 engine and filled the radiator for the first start and water came up through the head bolt near cylinder 1. Looked in the spark hole to find that water is in 1 and 2 cylinders, a very small amount. do I have to pull the pistons? I noticed that some surface rust is in the cylinders and when I tried to crank the engine there was a metal groan sound? Any advice on what to do next? Thanks, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 01:12 pm:

John, Since the motor is a rebuild it could be as simple as snugging up the head bolts multiple times after the engine is warmed up. Was the head and block surfaced during the rebuild? Do not add any antifreeze to the water until the problem is resolved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Van Cott on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 01:33 pm:

Michael, The engine head and block was surfaced, hot tanked, magna for cracks, new pistons, rings and valves etc. It sat for a few days so the cylinders have some surface rust and very hard to crank and with a groan. Possibly the water made its way to the rings and the surface rust is causing the problem with the hard crank, I removed the head and found a rot through from the water jacket into the bolt hole causing the leak up through the the head bolt. With the rust glaze on the cylinders and possible water to the rings do you think that I will need to pull the 1 and 2 pistons? Or bring them to TDC and soak the rings in oil ? I don't know if water found its way to the oil pan however I and sure that some made it through the valves. The engine has never run at this point I am just concerned about the water and possible damage to the rings, valves, etc. Thanks for your reply, any advice would be welcome. This has been a four year project for me, ground up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 01:38 pm:

Definitely re-torque the head bolts. Hopefully you will find a few well below 50 Lbs. in the area you're having a problem in thereby causing you're problem. If they are all OK (or you re-torque) and the problem persists you're going to be pulling the head off I'm pretty sure because something's wrong. If it's OK I'd spray some oil in the rusty cylinders and hand crank a few times to remove it. Don't think I'd try for a start until the problem is resolved. Might do more damage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Van Cott on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 01:52 pm:

Charlie, Thanks for your reply. I had a machine shop do the work, bore, valves, hot tank, etc. I did the assembly, etc. As I mentioned above I pulled the head and there was rot through from the jacket into the head bolt hole. Looks like the water went under the gasket into 1 and 2 cylinders. I have another low head at the shop being milled and ready for pickup Monday. Can the head gasket be used again or should I buy another one? Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 02:08 pm:

I think you're going to have to take care of the hole in the block first. As far as the head gasket goes you may be able to use it again. I would use some Permatex copper spray a gasket on both sides of the gasket. As stated before one you tighten the head down you may need to torque the bolts again one the engine warms up. Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 02:19 pm:

Use some type of thread sealer on that bolt. Later Ford V8's and 6's had bolts that went into the water jacket, not an uncommon thing. I would reuse the head gasket. Head gaskets need to be retorqued several times as they go thru hot/cold cycles. I would clean up the rust, maybe use Scotch sanding pad, clean and oil after. The rust should be only on the surface of the cylinder at this point, really has not had enough time to do any real damage, might leave some staining.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 03:14 pm:

John Van Cott - Just a suggestion here for what it's worth,..... you'll work through this I'm sure, but be very careful in dealing with this whole issue until you get it resolved. I'd suggest that until you're sure that there's no water in any cylinders, make a practice of hand cranking the engine for at least two full crankshaft revolutions before trying to start the engine with the electric starter. If there happens to enough water in one or more cylinders, and you attempt to crank the engine with the starter, you could possibly bend a connecting rod. Enough water in a cylinder can cause "hydraulic lock" as water does not compress, and something has to "give"! And then your problems could become a lot more serious,...... FWIW,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 04:22 pm:

John: Lock n Stitch make a thing called the Full Torque insert. Look them up, they will fix your problem with the bolt hole. That is where the H2O is coming from. I use them and they do a super job. Dan


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