No fender speedster... can it pass inspection?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: No fender speedster... can it pass inspection?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 05:24 pm:

Wondering if it possible for a speedster with no fenders to pass inspection in Nh? Anyone here have one in NH and got it inspected?

I would think nobody would care since it's so old... but...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 06:40 pm:

In Wisconsin they just did the paperwork. No one came out to see it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 08:36 pm:

John

According to NH DMV rules, you might need fenders ....but then maybe the inspection won't apply to your antique T.

You might just apply and don't ask or tell :-)



Saf-C 3211.06 Tire Width.



(a) A vehicle shall be rejected if the width of any tire or wheel assembly extends beyond the original manufacturer's specified fender lines, except in the case of passenger vehicles in which the fender line has been extended by using metal, rigid fiberglass or rigid rubber wheel-well extensions.



(b) Pursuant to RSA 266:57, if not equipped with proper fenders, a vehicle shall be rejected if not equipped with fender guards or flaps which prevent the throw, splash, spray of water, dirt or other matter upward or to the rear.



Source. (See Revision Notes at Chapter Heading Saf-C 3200) #8915, eff 6-22-07, EXPIRED: 6-22-15



New. #10886, INTERIM, eff 7-16-15, EXPIRES: 1-12-16; ss by #11016, eff 1-6-16


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 08:54 pm:

It might pass inspection, but would not be a car I would want to ride in...not that I'll get the chance...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

Thanks Dan for that. I've seen it, but I've also seen a few posts here from people in Nh without fenders that got them inspected... I wonder if it went under a custom it would be okay?

Thanks all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Landry, Hudson, NH on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

No inspection required in NH for cars 1946 or older. Not sure if you'd have the possibility of getting pulled over. I seem to remember seeing fenderless hot rods with "street rod" plates.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 10:02 pm:

Scott. Look at the picture in my profile. You would not want a ride in a T without fenders, etc. I do not even get wet from the tires when it rains, but I make some really neat rooster tails. Ask anyone who drove behind me in the rain.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 10:07 pm:

Dave

Nice picture. Neat car. That was a really great tour, wasn't it? That was a great "play house" you took the picture at...we were there too, too bad it was slightly off the beaten (tour) path. Great fun! And HOT! (that's coming from a lifetime FL boy, too).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 11:12 pm:

The local HCCA in Washington State lobbied our State Legislature to pass a law (Fair Weather Fender Law) back in the late 60's - early 70's (I believe), that "steel bodied" antique auto were exempt from fenders BUT shall cease to operate in rain & wet road conditions due to spray coming off the tires - or something to that effect.

My profile photo is my fender-less racer - ZOOM-ZOOM !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 11:33 pm:

You fender-less guys are duly invited to spend some time with me...travel our roads and you'll grow to appreciate fenders quite quickly!

:-)



but the end of the road is worth it...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 12:00 am:

Dirt or gravel roads and no fenders? Sounds like a perfect combination to me!! What do ya think Steve?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 12:21 am:

Over the years, I have had six speedster/racer Ts, only one had fenders or a windshield. I have probably driven close to a thousand miles in the rain, fifty or more miles in snow, and a few hundred miles in heavy fog. I love it!!! Dirt roads? Depends a bit on the road. Good dirt roads, are wonderful! Bad ones, too many potholes? Not so much, but I don't mind a little of them.

But I can't help with New Hampshire political issues. Don't know them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 02:03 am:

Have you ever driven a fenderless car through the puddle of muck where a dairy farm crosses a road? You better be ready to dodge what falls down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 03:52 am:

Sometimes I get caught in rain driving my fenderless primitive pickup, but the water from the tires doesn't bother me, neither does it bother the other drivers if they keep a normal distance behind. Only time I may get a few drips from the front tires is when turning into another road, and then I'm driving slow, so not much flow.

Once I did run into an excessive load of bovine waste though, and drips got everywhere including my jacket, so there are some risks involved if driving too fast on dirty roads..

I had to make a set of fenders for registration inspection, made them out of fat 16" tires and some flat iron. Took them off as soon as it was registered.

bki

This year cars before 1952 has got an exemption from fenders in Sweden thanks to lobbying from the hotrodders, so I won't have to worry about some odd cop fining me anymore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 04:38 am:

Oh, kep, if you only knew!
About 35 years ago, I think it was the first time my wife rode on an Endurance Run with me. We were leading a group of cars through a narrow road with trees and fences along the sides. The cars ahead of us were some distance ahead, and we were trying to catch up. When as I rounded a turn I saw the herd of cattle beginning to flood the road (must have been fifty to a hundred). I rushed on up, hoping the drovers would hold the cattle back and allow us to pass, but no such luck. Right in front of us, now stopped, they filled the road, and we had to follow them about a quarter of a mile. By this time, several cars had caught up with us, and follow the cattle we did, at their pace. My wife started complaining that "They COULD have let us pass" etcetera. I replied "Close your mouth", something one should NEVER tell one's wife. With that, she started complaining louder and telling me to "Not tell (her) to shut up" and more. I then replied "I didn't tell you to shut up! I told you to close your mouth! Look at what is coming off the tires!" "Oh".
Even though we were running at only about three miles per hour, we were speckled from the waist up. As were the several cars and drivers that followed us.

In spite of that, she did go on a few more Endurance Runs, and would often joke with friends about the memory of that one.
And four of the five speedsters that have followed that first one of mine, had no fenders.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 06:27 am:

Perfect guys, just what I was looking for! Guess I'll risk it for now and if I need them do what Roger did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 07:09 am:

Inspection? What ess inspection?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 09:16 am:

Yes sir, Mr. Dan - been on my share of gravel & logging roads up here in the beautiful Pacific Northwest !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 09:41 am:

The trick with no fenders is to turn slightly to the right when crossing water so it doesn't throw water on the driver. The most important thing is to put the straightest wheel on the right front so the passenger doesn't get too nervous.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 10:20 am:

There is no inspection here in sunny SW Florida (other then a VIN verification), but there is in Massachusetts where I used to live. One issue was that the inspector was supposed to drive the car into the inspection bay. None of them know how to drive a T. The last inspection sticker on my T is 1993. I'm planning to leave it in place. It's probably happened, but I don't know of a single case of a cop in Massachusetts stopping a pre-WW2 antique car for defective or missing equipment.
I do have a cousin who lives in NH who was told by the powers that be, that in order to qualify for antique plates there, the car must appear as totally stock - right down to the hubcaps. Is this true?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 10:33 am:

This may no longer be a valid point as we left NH in 2004. None of our vintage VW's or other hot rods were stock and we had no problem getting them registered with antique plates (or inspected). My next to last build was a fenderless volksrod and while it was registered, I was not able to get it inspected in NH. FWIW, we have lived in no inspection states and saw first hand the death traps rolling the pavement. I am strongly for an annual mechanical inspection. YMMV


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Landry, Hudson, NH on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 11:53 am:

Gary - no inspection in NH for pre-1946 cars since about 2010.

Massachusetts just made all inspection stations buy new equipment that includes cameras. Big brother can watch the inspections going on at any time. My son is a shop foreman at a dealer in MA, but does not do inspections. Because he does not have an inspection license, he can't even drive a car into the inspection bay for someone else to do the inspection on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 12:22 pm:

Thanks Chris. That should help the OP with his fenderless speedster. The state sure has come a long way considering it wasn't but a couple decades ago they required inspections twice a year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 01:56 pm:

I plan on getting regular plates since antique ones restrict what you can do... Once again thank you everyone for your help! Keep the replies rolling in (If theres any more input!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 02:43 pm:

My drivers are fenderless, and I travel plenty of dirt roads. On a rare occasion a small pebble will land on the buckboard or in the tub. Never been a problem too much to handle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 03:29 pm:

Most of the NWVS endurance runs have at least token dirt/gravel roads and many of the other tours I do have their share of gravel. Washboard and big rocks aren't always fun but I have no objection to gravel roads in my no fender speedster. I do pick up some minor rocks and dust (or mud) but no big deal. I have gotten a few windshield chips though so it pays to stay in front. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 04:25 pm:

Apparently, Wyoming has the "only" gravel roads ! That road you pictured almost looked paved, Scott.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 04:46 pm:

I get more water on my at slow speeds. The water comes from the rear tires, not the fronts.

Good Luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 06:55 pm:

Hi John,

I was a part of the group which petitioned the New Hampshire Legislature to pass a law exempting from state safety inspection vehicles model year 1948 or older, registered as an ANTIQUE AND essentially STOCK. The law has since been amended to apply to any 60 year old vehicle which is registered as an antique and largely stock.

There were a few public meetings where the legislators were seeking input from interested parties and I did stand and "testify" at one of them.

This law had more than a little to do with the state's liability regarding antique cars which could not be fully inspected by a licensed garage. When the inspecting mechanic applied the inspection sticker to the windshield, he (or she) was certifying that the vehicle was Fully Inspected and with allowances for Grandfathering, was Safe For Road Use. Now, we here all realize that the service brake on a Ford Model T can't really be inspected visually. Likewise the internal rear brakes on most antique cars require that the wheel be removed to inspect the brakes. Very few modern shops would have a puller for a Model T, or a '16 Studebaker, or, well, whatever. The shops don't have specs on these cars for example allowable play or lash in the front end.

We helped the legislators to understand that the inspecting mechanic, as a Licensed Representative of the DMV and the State Itself was Certifying as SAFE these antique vehicles which could not be fully and completely inspected. The State was putting itself in jeopardy and at risk of lawsuit should a certified safe antique car be involved in an accident and subsequent investigation proved that the vehicle was not safe and should not received an inspection sticker.

So, by enacting this law, the burden of responsibility for safety and any threat of lawsuit falls squarely on the antique car owner.

There was more than a little discussion at the public meetings (and likely much more at the closed meetings) about hot rods, street rods, rat rods, and custom cars. This law was created for Antique cars which are essentially STOCK. Speedsters are in a bit of a gray area. We know that they are not a factory offered body, but most "civilians" don't so they should get a pass and, I think, fenderless should as well.

I see too many hot rods, street rods, and rat rods here in New Hampshire registered as ANTIQUE and thereby exempt from safety inspection and it boils my blood. They are the bad apples which can spoil the whole bushel. There is a Hot Rod plate available and those cars ought to registered as such.

I hope that the above is helpful to you, John, regarding your interest in building a fenderless speedster.

As to restrictive use of a car registered as Antique. Well the DMV does that for a reason; lower cost to register, the self inspection for vehicle safety, and well, to ensure that the antique is not your daily driver.

If you do register your Model T as a "regular" car, you would be required to bring it in for a safety inspection just as any vehicle with regular passenger plates.

My Model T is registered as an antique. I drive it often and occasionally several days in succession. I do not drive it EVERY day. Good luck with your project, Bill

This picture taken on my way to work back in (maybe?) 2005.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 08:59 pm:

Wow Bill, extremely helpful! Thank you for putting the time into writing that. And thank you for your petitioning!!

Ok that makes since with the antique plates, so if I just drive once or twice a week then I should be fine... Besides someone would have to be really bored I would think to pull you over in a T over a plate like that! What about YOM plates, does NH let you use those as long as you have the antique plates in the car?

Thank you again everyone for your help!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 10:42 pm:

Steve

that gravel road is a 2 mile long private road to my home and was just dragged prior to the picture being taken...it was indeed quite smooth. In a day or two with our wind it was wash-boarded again. Our community has about 100 homes in about 150 square miles, so it does seem like we only have gravel roads :-)

We have paved roads...but mighty few compared to most states...once we get to it, ours takes us to town about 35 miles away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 12:14 pm:

Here's the gravel we live on - - - 5 of us on 70 acres.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 12:26 pm:

Oh, yes Walt - I had to change my "nickname" since we retired out here !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 12:58 pm:

Very nice...
Sure beats city life, doesn't it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Landry, Hudson, NH on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 02:26 pm:

You can use a YOM plate as a front plate in NH. You need to get a permit from the DMV. If I remember correctly, I had to bring the plate in for them to see. Cost, amazingly, is $0. You get a little piece of paper to keep with your registration. You are supposed to renew it every year, a fact that I missed for the first several years that I had the YOM plate. I did not have to show the plate for the renewal. You do have to go to the registry for this little piece of paper. Your town hall can't do it when you renew your registration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Chaffin......Corona, CA on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 03:03 pm:

I plan on leaving California in the near future. Canít wait to have my own gravel road. Iíve been looking up around Steveís way. Maybe weíll be neighbors. Iíll have to figure out what to do with all that money I wonít be giving away to the politicians to support the ever growing population of needy folks. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 04:41 pm:

Check out Lee Thevenet's Horselesscarriagereplicas.com news letter volume 5 for an article on making your own wooden fenders to fit a Model T speedster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 07:52 pm:

Yes, yes it does, Scott ! Some of my family is from Montana - same as Wyoming - more gravel than pavement !

Peace & quiet except for an occasional CH-47 & Blackhawks from J.B. Lewis/McChord - they like to take a spin across the water, do a loop off the end of the peninsula by us and head back east !

Lots of room out this way Mark !

Apologies about the thread drift too !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 08:44 pm:

Well, if I had to have my solitude broken every now and then, I think if it was hearing the sound of Freedom, it wouldn't be so bad!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 12:47 am:

The sound of a CH 47 Chinook is music to my ears, especially when one runs up to full RPM when starting. Still raises the hair on the back of my neck. The wife says I'm getting hard of hearing but can't understand why I can hear a Chinook or Huey way off in the distance and identify which is which before she even hears one. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 12:50 am:

Sorry for the thread drift too. Dave


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