Trouble finding neutral

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Trouble finding neutral
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john pawlowski - NE Pennsylvania on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

I started my question on another thread. But I didn't realize it was interfering with the original thread. I apologize for that. Basically I was saying that even with all the threads I've read and looking at attached photos, I still am unable to find that neutral sweet spot. I have had the engine and transmission professional rebuilt by Schwalms in Strasburg Pennsylvania. Also the engine will only start with the rear wheels off the ground. It runs excellent. Now the problem is with the rear wheels on the ground the starter struggles to turn the engine and the car tries to creep forward. However when I pull the hand brake all the way back touching the seat it seems like the engine spins better. unfortunately the battery went dead and I haven't been able to get the battery back in to try again and I'm afraid that if I take my hand off the hand brake the car will go into gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 10:16 pm:

John

no need to apologize, I just didn't want your help to tangle in with another transmission issue that I do NOT think you're having.

Here is a great thread with discussions similar to yours:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/730070.html

And some more info, courtesy of Mark Strange and others:



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 10:18 pm:

Oh, and get about 1/2 way through the link I posted and it starts to sound like advice you need...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 10:37 pm:

Never mind I reread the post!

(Message edited by redmodelt on November 05, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john pawlowski - NE Pennsylvania on Sunday, November 05, 2017 - 10:59 pm:

Thanks Scott, I'm reading the thread and it does sound similar to what I'm experiencing. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping the weather holds out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 11:48 am:

How is your cross shaft on the Parking brake lever? I once had one which was bent and the cam which operates the clutch lever didn't make good contact with the bolt. When you have the lever in the neutral position, which is approximately straight up, the bolt should be all the way on top of the cam. It should remain on top of the cam when you pull back into the parking position. When the lever is all the way forward the bolt should be clear of the cam as is shown in the picture above titled "Free Neutral".

If this is the case and the bolt is properly adjusted you should have neutral when the lever is pulled back.

Other causes of lack of free neutral would be clutch disks binding either because the drum or hub is worn and won't let the disks separate or the three fingers on the clutch release inside the transmission are out of adjustment.

You could also have too tight bands either low or reverse. If there is a drag on the drum by the band being too tight, you need to loosen the adjustment one half turn at a time Until the band engages when the pedal is about one inch above the floorboard. If you have newly lined bands, you might find a little drag at first until the bands settle in. Drive a short distance and try again. Do not drive very far with the bands dragging or you will overheat the drums.

It is also normal for the clutch disks to drag a bit with a cold engine until the oil warms up especially in cold weather. If you can get the car to start with the rear wheels jacked up, try using the pedals one at a time.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john pawlowski - NE Pennsylvania on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 12:13 pm:

Hello Norm,I took pictures this morning of the parking brake handle in the three positions. Straight up for neutral, full forward for second and as far to the rear for parking brake/neutral. Now I just hope I can attach them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john pawlowski - NE Pennsylvania on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 01:01 pm:

Here are the photos of my parking brake positions. They do not look like they are proper.neutralsecond gearparking brake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 01:16 pm:

Looks correct to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 01:19 pm:

Looks right to me, you want the bolt off the cam with the brake lever forward, and on the cam with the lever pulled back.

Does the clutch pedal move forward 1 3/4 inches when you pull the brake lever to put the bolt onto the cam? If not, loosen the lock nut and screw the bolt down until you get the proper clutch pedal travel, then re-tighten the lock nut.

A Model T will never have as "free" a neutral as a car with a selective gear transmission, see this thread:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/521566.html?1425776566


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 01:22 pm:

It looks correct but wonder if the high release lever is fully releasing high gear based on how few threads show at the bottom and so much "bolt" at the top of the arm.

A quick look through the inspection door, for loose (released) clutch fingers (3) will tell if high is fully released or dragging.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 01:23 pm:

Mark types faster...:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 01:48 pm:

I have to agree that Model T's really don't have a 'free' neutral.

There are things you can do that can get you pretty close assuming that your transmission is pretty good shape mechanically and the adjustments are close.

Park your T on a flat smooth service. With the engine off put the car in neutral with the hand brake in the straight up neutral position.

Turn the crank and if you cant turn it without moving the car something is to tight and its usually the low speed band.

Back off the adjustment a little at a time to the point where you turn the crank without moving the car. If you still cant turn the crank when the brake handle is straight up check the clutch linkage adjustment. Something is to tight somewhere.
All Model T's aren't exactly alike when it comes to clutch adjustments. They are pretty close but not exactly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john pawlowski - NE Pennsylvania on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 02:39 pm:

This is all very encouraging.I can tell you that the clutch pedal does not move 1-3/4 inches when I pull the lever back. Can it be that simple? So I'm looking for a forward movement of 1-3/4 inches on the clutch pedal in the straight up "neutral" position?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 02:59 pm:

Think about and visualize what the cam on the brake lever does when you move the brake handle.

Better yet, watch the motion of all of the linkage while a helper moves the brake handle forward and back.

When the bolt is on the cam, the clutch pedal should be 1 3/4 inches forward of where it is when the bolt is off of the cam.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john pawlowski - NE Pennsylvania on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 03:37 pm:

Well Gentlemen, SUCCESS!!!!
Loosened the nut and turned down bolt 3 full turns. Went to the crank handle and it turned over almost effortlessly. With the exception of when I felt Compression. The ultimate test, got battery off charge, installed, opened gas valve,turned key to battery, choke, Pushed starter switch. Couple of turns, okay maybe 3 or 4.
Woo Hoo IT'S ALIVE! Engine running smooth and no
lurching forward.
Thank You All Very Much
And a special Thanks to Mark Strange, Who would have thought, a lousy 3 turns of a bolt?
I think I'll celebrate by purchasing some wish list parts for my baby.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 04:19 pm:

Thanks for reporting back and congratulations on your success


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 06:03 pm:

That's good. Glad you got it to work.
Norm


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