Starter Rebuild - Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Starter Rebuild - Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Dunlap - Orlando, Florida on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 06:52 pm:

My son who is all sorts of smart about electrical things has decided to take a stab at rebuilding our starter. He has run into a bit of a snag. There are four large flat head screws called field coil screws (See one of the screws in the picture below). He has tried to remove them, but they seem to be frozen. What is the trick to getting them to loosen? Or is there a special tool for removing them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 07:08 pm:

I use an impact screw driver.....one of those that you use a hammer with. When you pound on it the driver loosens the screw. It's also reversible. Harbor Freight has them and they are very inexpensive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 07:10 pm:

Maybe a little penetrating oil will help


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Dunlap - Orlando, Florida on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 07:15 pm:

Thanks, Hal. He said he tried both of those options and we will try it again. Is it ok to apply a little heat?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 07:20 pm:

You will want to get them as tight when you're done as they are now...plus you will need to spread and align the pole shoes when you're done while tightening the screws.

Might consider checking short to ground first, and hope to avoid the whole mess. Best repair is to replace the coils or rewrap them, but if you are experimenting with a repair, and unsure of success, you might try to get away with this. If the cotton tape is rotted then you're back to your original question, though.

Hint: it is much easier to drill the heads and punch them out than try to unscrew them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 07:27 pm:

Wouldn't use any heat, the pole screws factory placed with power driver, Ford used a pole screw, blade to fit the slot, which turned in fixture and case held in a vice.



An impact driver should do it, with correct fitting single slot blade so you don't bugger the screw slot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Dunlap - Orlando, Florida on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 08:35 pm:

Thanks for the good and quick advice. We opted to drill them out. They just wouldn’t budge even with the impact driver. Drilling them out was a pretty quick option.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn - Lincoln, NE on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 08:37 pm:

Here is a very good video on rebuilding the starter. It shows how to remove the pole screws.

http://modelt-tips.com/Electrical/02.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eck Sheppard on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 08:41 pm:

Have a drag link socket we will try with my brothers starter. Should work nicely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn - Lincoln, NE on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 08:54 pm:

The above posted video shows removal of the pole screws at about 14 minutes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Dizer on Monday, November 06, 2017 - 09:48 pm:

I have a friend who has rebuilt thousands of old starters, takes a round 3/16" punch and a medium sized ball pein hammer and hits it at a sharp angle at the end of the slot. Usually one or two smacks loosens it without problems. He will tighten it with the impact driver and then use the punch to finish it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fords Masterpiece . nj on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 01:31 am:

So at this point a guess we all want to know who your friend is william ? So we can use him !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 08:39 am:

If they still wont move chuck up the generator in a vise and use a hammer and chisel to get them to start turning. It works most every time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 09:31 am:

And in the end, you have 4 screws banged and buggered up. If you manage to beat them back in you can't tell a proper rebuild from a repainted wreck. Drilled out with 4 new screws makes for a good, professional looking job.

Yes, looks can be deceiving, but if a workman doesn't care for small details that can be seen, one wonders about the bigger details inside that cannot.

To each is own, but I'm never impressed with a rebuild that ends up looking like the first picture in the posting...and many do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 05:46 pm:

I really don't think people would try to save banged up screws when new ones are readily available. Who in the world would try reuse them if they were beat up. That's whey vendors sell replacement parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 06:52 pm:

John

apparently people do, as can be seen on the original posting picture. That's been off and back on at least once after leaving the factory. I agree it makes little sense other than penuriousness and not wanting to spend the dough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ben Umberger on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 02:59 pm:

Learn something every day
Definition of penurious. I can't be the only who wondered

1 :marked by or suffering from penury penurious peasants and fisherfolk
2 :given to or marked by extreme stinting frugality


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brad Marble on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 04:06 pm:

I have rebuilt many model T starters and never had to disturb or replace the field coils. Unless they are burned or show signs of being overheated they are probable alright to reuse. Now a model T generator is a different story. Brad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 10:55 pm:

Build yer own tool. Someone elses photo:

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 12:09 am:

I learned a trick a long time ago that an old book taught me about stuck bolts/screws.
A flat head (countersunk) screw needs a good swat from a hammer and a big punch or a bolt or...
They loosen up real nice after.
I taught the trick to a young fellow at work just the other day when he was trying to get some parts for re-use from a used aircraft tow-bar head.
The counter-bored, socket head screws wouldn't budge for him. I got my little SHXT hammer and a bolt and smacked the screw on the head.
Loosened right up.
He soon figured out ya gotta whack it good.
Sometimes an impact driver can't give the blow the bolt needs. :-)
I'd be afraid to "spring" a generator or a starter's frame if I had a tight one. Haven't been there. Yet.
Are the frames resilient enough to take a blow? Did the Ford method (a vice) sometimes spring a frame out of round?
:-)


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