Should There be a Piece of Wood in This Front Door Pillar?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Should There be a Piece of Wood in This Front Door Pillar?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 02:53 pm:

The front door pillar on my 1925 touring body is currently all metal, the door hinge is held on to the pillar with flat head machine screws, lock washers, and square nuts.

Should there be a piece of wood inside the door pillar channel (see red arrows) to allow the door hinge to be held on with flat head wood screws?

I noticed that the floorboard support bracket has a hole for a wood screw that currently isn't used because there is no wood behind it (green arrow).

If I were to cut a piece of wood to fit in that channel, I would have to make it in two pieces so that I could fit the first piece into the top part of the channel, then slide it down till it bottoms, then install the second piece on top of the first.


pic

(Message edited by cudaman on November 08, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 04:20 pm:

Nope, no wood there. I think you have the retaing strip on the vertical pice, and you can see the two retaining tabs on the floor riser these keep the cardboard cowl panel in place. You can see the remains of my panel "flopped over" on the riser.

Close-up

The threaded hole you see by the bottom door hinge is for the screw & clamp that holds the door check strap on. That clamp is unique to the '25s and is a bit hard to find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 04:23 pm:

Looking at your picture again, it looks like someone may have mangled the edge of your retaining strip, it should fit around the end of the cardboard: forming a U channel about 3/16" wide (wide enough to hold the edge of the cardboard--I'm guessing at the dimension).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 04:30 pm:

Thanks! I guess the hole in the floorboard support is a carryover from prior years.

I do indeed have the little tabs on the bottom to retain the kick panel. I will check the rear retaining strip to make sure it is straight and has room to slip the kick panel in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 12:36 am:

I thought I had a pic of the clamp piece. It's a square stamping with serrations to hold the strap. I have one, but can't tell you where it is so I could photo it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 08:35 am:

Here it is. I now have one for this body, thanks!


pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 09:16 am:

Mark would you please set a ruler beside that clip since I don't have one for my car I may have to fabricate one


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 09:28 am:

Here you go. It is approximately 1 3/8 by 1 1/8 inches.


pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 09:44 am:

thank you Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 09:47 am:

They were used in C cab trucks too, and yes, are hard to find for some reason. The screw for those is a unique size too. What's even harder to find is the retainer strip for the cardboard kick panel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 09:53 am:

Retainer strip? Special screw? Larry, can you post pictures?

I was assuming that a 12-24 round head screw was correct. It must be fairly long to go through the clip, the strap, the kick panel, and still have plenty of thread engagement on the pillar.

Always eager to learn! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 10:58 am:

The retainer strip was hard to find back in the late seventies when I restored a 25 roadster. Got mine off a rusty piece of body that a friend had, Larry is right on that one. Check strap pieces were made from heavier stuff. Think I got one of mine off the same body piece. Good detail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Knowles - Moncton, New Brunswick on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 05:50 am:

Question- What holds the kick panel on the top along the curved area of the cowl. I am working on a 25 roadster and trying to figure this out. Should there be a wood filler in there somewhere?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 08:40 am:

Hmmm, good question, perhaps nothing?

Maybe the wood strip at the rear, plus the four tabs pointed out by the arrows are sufficient?

This picture is of the driver's side of my 1925 touring body. The passenger side is the same, except the wood strip at the rear is replaced by a metal U-channel that the kick panel fits in.

So, my assumption is that the driver's side kick panel only has tacks at the rear, into the wood strip, and the passenger side kick panel has no tacks at all? :-)


pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 09:22 am:

Maybe the upper part of the kick panel is held by the mysterious, rare "retainer strip" that folks have mentioned but not illustrated here (yet). :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Knowles - Moncton, New Brunswick on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 10:55 am:

Thanks. Ours is a Canadian car so we have a driver's door as well and no wood post. It would be the same as the passenger side. Mystery continues....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 11:29 am:

The retainer is for the cardboard kick panel, and is posted in three photos above. It is inserted behind the hinge before it is tightened up. It is 10 3/16" long, and has four slots in it to go in back of the hinge screws. It's quite an elaborate piece of sheet metal work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 12:08 pm:

Mark; I just went out and looked at the 25 I am working on. On the passenger side; besides the U channel along the door, there are 2 V shaped clips along the floor board riser and 2 on the dash panel support. In addition, the kick panel sits in the groove in the riser. On the drivers side same V shaped clips and channel in riser, the rest would have been nailed to wood structure. I do not think there would have ever been clips or such at the top in the cowl area as the cardboard would not have needed them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 12:26 pm:

Ahh, so the passenger side "retainer" is the U-channel piece that the red arrows are kind of pointing at in the first picture!

I would guess that Canadian cars with doors on both sides would have all metal door posts and would need two of the "retainers".

I also found an earlier post from Larry that said the screw for the door limiter strap clip is a 12-24 round head screw.

Thank you all!

I agree, with the retainer strip at the back of the kick panel, and the small tabs at the bottom and front, there would be no real need for any panel retention features at the top. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 12:48 pm:

Ah, Larry's post is most helpful, I figured you just had to "pop" the cardboard on, his way makes much more sense (I've never taken any of that area apart yet).
As for the drivers's side, the side panel and the cowl panel are, I believe, one piece, so, yes, it's just nailed to the wood. The top of the cowl panel doesn't need any fastening, it's held securely by the retainer strip at the door opening and the tab near it's top on the firewall area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 12:53 pm:

Oh, Mark, by reading Larry's post, you can take that strip off and straighten it out! I thought it was spot welded to the body. That should make the repair much easier--although getting the hinge screws loose might be a bit of a challenge. . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 12:57 pm:

No repair needed. I got an email from Charley Shaver telling me that the strip is perfect the way it is and not to modify it, sorry. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Dunlap - Orlando, Florida on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 01:15 pm:

Mark:
Take a look at the pic below. I am piecing together my 1923 Touring wood kit and the wood pillar that is in the center of this pic is where youíve highlight in your picture (I think). I canít be certain that you need the wooden pillar, and I havenít gotten to the point of putting the sheet metal around this skeleton, but it sure looks like that pillar is needed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 01:42 pm:

A '23 would indeed have wood there.

Betsy, my January 1924 cut-off touring (now a pickup) has a wood pillar there also, but from what I've read further up this thread, a '25 should not. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 10:38 am:

From the posts above, it should be clear that the 1925 bodies are a new design. They even used a new wider floormat for the bodies. The only one I ever saw was in pieces. Someone out there must have one? There are many early T's with the original floor mats, why not 1925's? Don Snyder sent me a untrimmed mat for my '25 that is doing the job, but I'd still like to find an original.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 02:26 pm:

Mark, that's great, In the picture it looked a little deformed, but if it's not, one less thing to fix!!
Erik, '25s don' need no stinkin' pillar! :-)
As Larry mentioned above, many changes on the '25s. As to floor mats, from what I understand there isn't a correctly made repro out there. I would imagine the molds are just too expensive to tool up to make the correct ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 05:06 pm:

Good to know that Lang's will sell an untrimmed floor mat by request!

Larry, was there enough extra material to achieve the correct '25 mat size and shape, or does it just get you closer without being quite there?

:-)


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration