WHY? Continued...

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: WHY? Continued...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 09:19 am:

Here's a guy I respect. Great car and he doesn't preach to me about his mods...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 09:49 am:

So in general is it the modifications from stock or the preaching you don't like. Cause I thought you were a purist


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 10:00 am:

It's the preaching. I have no problem with mods but don't tell me I'm crazy for not doing the same to my vehicles.

I also feel strongly that the proliferation of misinformation out there about alterations deters potential new comers to the hobby. I have witnessed and know of multiple incidents where guys have not pulled the trigger on a T because they are under the impression that the car is not usable as it was originally built.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 10:15 am:

Yeah, if it doesn't have an alternator, twelve volts, and a disturbutor it's going to break down in the middle if the desert and you're going to die.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 10:19 am:

Well depending where you are the model T may not be useable as it was originally built. Here with 1 road and traffic travelling 50-55 it really is very dangerous to drive a T. If you go anywhere out of town there is only 1 road and you are looking at 55-65 traffic.

I have 2 friends one with a stock T and the other with a stock A. The A is driven as daily as possible about 10 miles. On that trip it is wide open. The T is driven once every month or two, every time it is taken out (under 6 miles round trip) it is a hazard on the road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 10:23 am:

Clayton is a "purist" too in a sense... not pure to it's factory condition, but pure to the era. That car is very authentic to what a young guy on a budget would have built in the 30s.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 10:43 am:

Steve: So with unmolested T I will live forever in the desert? Not sure I want to live there, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 11:09 am:

It will just seem like forever. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 11:46 am:

I gauge my preferences on how I like doing things and how much I will enjoy the finished product. I don't see many that enjoy what they do any more than Clayton does. That is enough for me to appreciate his work.
I go to a lot of work to make some things as close to correct as feasible. That gives me much satisfaction. Other things I take some liberties with.
Fun is where you find it.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 12:23 pm:

"It's the preaching. I have no problem with mods but don't tell me I'm crazy for not doing the same to my vehicles."
Well stated, Tim.
May I add: "or if I have made my own modifications..."
Take Care; Behave; "Don't Shoot!" (and)
"Happy T-ing!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 12:45 pm:

Right on Marv.

Using a distributor because you don't have the time or money to rebuild your mag? I get it..

Using a water pump because you don't have the $800 to $900 for a new radiator? I get it...

Crazy to use an original starter switch without a modern solenoid? Go fly a kite...the original set up works perfectly.

Not smart for not installing fuses? Hogwash...if you use a new original style harness installed properly you won't have any problems or garage fires.

A lot of modifications that people swear by are just band aids...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 12:54 pm:

Yup!
"Build 'em as YOU WANT TO DRIVE THEM!" (THAT could even be a 'hot rod'...) "Classy" is always preferable to some 'gook-wagon' (subject to individual interpretation), as I've heard referenced in the past.
Take Care; Behave; "Don't Shoot!" (and)
"Happy T-ing!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RE Helgeson on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 01:30 pm:

All of these why treads started with the blown fuse thread. I think everyone should go back and reread that thread then come back and let us know who was preaching to who. Rick Ross asked for help because his in line fuse was blowing. He was getting help. Then we got a post about modifications preaching how they were unnecessary. Folks, that thread was not about modifications it was someone asking for help which he did get. If you want a fact then here it is. A short in your T's electrical system can cause a fire. Wires can get skinned, switches can go bad. So don't present it as fact that it cannot or will not ever happen. That my friends is misinformation at its finest.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 01:38 pm:

Thank you RE. I was wondering which thread started all of this as there have been several over the past week where any deviation was deemed blasphemy. I actually thought it was the window curtain/clear area vs low visibility original thread. I'll re-read that fuse thread


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 01:50 pm:

Many of us are guilty!
Take Care; Behave; "Don't Shoot!" (and)
"Happy T-ing!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Davis on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 02:08 pm:

I recently got My First T Model, which I later learned was not fused. sparks shot out of the Shiny reproduction switch the first night while checking out the lights, got my attention sparks in the Dark, and the smell of burnt plastic. I am installing basic fusing and a Battery disconnect. while getting a original model T switch rebuilt, "When You know Better You can Do Better" Dog bite You once Dogs fault.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 02:12 pm:

"A short in your T's electrical system can cause a fire. Wires can get skinned, switches can go bad. So don't present it as fact that it cannot or will not ever happen"

I reread every post and couldn't find where anyone stated the above as a fact. RE could you please direct us to the thread and post that supports your comment or are you disseminating more misinformation?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RE Helgeson on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 02:16 pm:

Tim, are you disputing that a short in a T's electrical system can cause a fire? Don't try and spin this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 02:25 pm:

RE I am committed to keeping folks well informed with factual information.

I'll ask you again- could you please direct us to the thread and post that supports your comment in regards to "wires can get skinned, switches can go bad. So don't present it as fact that it cannot or will not ever happen"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RE Helgeson on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 02:44 pm:

Tim "Well you might as well ditch the generator and switch to an alternator and have a modern fuse block put in so the garage won't burn down. "

My response to this is "wires can get skinned, switches can go bad. So don't present it as fact that it cannot or will not ever happen"

You see I don't care what you do with your car and I don't care what you think of what I do with mine. But that was your response to the fact someone had put in an in-line fuse which was not what the post was about anyway. It was about a short in his wiring which could have ended badly.

I have nothing else to say on this subject so respond if you feel you must.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 02:55 pm:

Well that fact is that he didn't have a short in his wiring. He either had too long of a screw in his cut out or the tab was bent down too far.

You see RE when we discuss things factually we all discover what really has happened. No need for fuses if everything is correct and up to snuff...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 02:57 pm:

Guys - "Play nice!"
Take Care; Behave; "Don't Shoot!" (and)
"Happy T-ing!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 03:16 pm:

Tim

Perhaps you missed my post in the Fuse Blowing thread.

Truth. This DID happen to me.

I admit I caused the frayed wire by squishing the oval plate on that wire. The lamp was the type that clips on the oval switch plate.


A couple of years ago I had just added an accessory dash lamp to my '26 oval switch plate, the kind that ran wire behind the plate between the dash.

When out to the garage later that day and smelled smoke! What the heck. That wire had been chaffed with my install....my mistake, but could have burned down the garage! The '26 has its gas tank right there!! Yikes.

So all my T's have Fun Projects fuse at the battery wire at the foot switch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 03:29 pm:

Tim, houses a 100 years ago never came with smoke detectors or carbon monoxide detectors, but i sleep better at night knowing that they are there. How you can argue against installing something as innocuous as an in-line fuse just because it never came with one is baffling to say the least. Oh by the way, i love my Kevlar bands. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 03:42 pm:

Wait until Tim's homeowners insurance finds out he removed the breaker panel from his basement and plastered over the hole. After all, if everything was correctly wired during construction and you don't plug in any incompatible equipment downstream, nothing can go wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 03:45 pm:

Just to show what I did by mistake, this is the type of 'clip' on dash lamp for the oval plate.





The wire exits the rear, and goes under the plate to the ammeter. My mistake was thinking the thick insulation would be correct stand off of the wire and the metal dash panel. These things were made this way then. But pinching the wire caused a short, and by the time (lucky) I went to the garage, the entire room smelled of smoke, and I saw it pouring from the dash due to the wire insulation being burned up. Jumped into the pickup bed and lifted the battery tray door and pried off the positive lead. Then cleared the smoke and examined by charred lead and dash and lamp burnt paint. Could have been way worse.

Scary.

My Model T's are fused today.

You don't have to, agree after 1919 when Ford put a 10amp fuse on the dash for the new FA generator system, Ford removed that fuse.

Happily keep your Ford fuse free is your decision, I won't tell you how to outfit your Ford. Life is for me to live and let live.

I just tell others what did happen to me and why I now choose to fuse :-) Anyone can make their own determinations, that will always be true.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 03:52 pm:

I use a modern solenoid with a twist key start because with 16 size shoes a gimpy left leg and knees in my face its much faster re starting my motor killed in a bad intersection with impatient drivers behind waiting and the drivers in front who caused the killed engine by not understanding a hand signal so they wave back while cutting you off!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom 30 miles N of Memphis TN on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 03:56 pm:

Not sure I follow Tim but basically isnít he saying the only reason modern cars, houses, aircraft, etc., have fuses or circuit protection is because the electrical systems werenít installed correctly?
I learn a lot here!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 04:01 pm:

ANY type of 6 or 12 volt electrical system in a gator, dune buggy, riding mower, MODEL T or what ever can have a short, start arcing and cause a fire or at least damage the wiring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RE Helgeson on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 04:06 pm:

Dan, I like the dash light. Did you reinstall on your car? I have a dash light but it is the one to the right of the oval plate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 04:15 pm:

The following is a list of 5 well known garage fires caused by Model Ts without fuses:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 04:18 pm:

Nope, it's in the cupboard.

Put on the std. Ford accessory, with holes drilled.



But later saw this style, likely a real improvement, it has a stub hollow screw to pass the hot wire thru, so no contact with metal, safer idea. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 04:39 pm:

I'll admit that the T isn't especially known as a fire bug but the fuse (or perhaps a cut off switch) is a solid plus with me. Just makes sense. Don't know when it became popular but it may have been a result of the cars just getting older and "stuff" started happening.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RE Helgeson on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 04:55 pm:

I see you have a temp gauge to the right of the switch. What do you have to the left? Under normal driving conditions how hot does your T run?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 05:26 pm:

That disc on left is a FL registration tag from the '20's, just there for fun.

The temp gage is neat, monitors the temp, when running fast or hill climbing the gage will read 200, as soon as engine speed drops, that needle goes too, real fast, back to 180 as normal operating temp when driving.

That sudden drop is the thermo-syphon doing its thing, a big bolus of hot water in the upper tank floods down the tubes, and air-heat exchange in the radiator provides the cooling that puts the engine back to normal temps :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By RE Helgeson on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 05:48 pm:

Dan, My oldest son is starting to put together a speedster. He is in the gathering of parts phase. I think the temp gauge like that would be perfect. Thanks for the look.


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