Demountable transmission bands challenges

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Demountable transmission bands challenges
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt the Headlight Lens Guy n California on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 01:52 am:

I helped a friend put put on new bands. His were not demountable, so we removed and replaced the hogs head. I have R&R demountables on my '26, a bit of a pain, but did it. After all the work we did today with this earlier hog head, I am not so sure we will be able to demount them. Here are the two reasons why:
1. He has a early hogs head that didn't have a starter. There is very little space to move around.
2. The replacement bands were of three different types. One was ford. One said GM! And the third said SF Co. At least the two non-Ford seem like the rivets stick up just a bit too much to remove the ears when I tried.

I would love to hear insight about how easy it is to demount bands on early model Ts. And opinions on the different year hog heads and different manufactures.

Thanks,

Matt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 06:34 am:

I have a 1915 with the original aluminum hogs head and ribbed pedals. I am able to remove and replace bands with de-mountable ears but they have to be the type with the buttons and not the long hooks. It is difficult to do, but you can get it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curtis Fesler on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 07:57 am:

I'm new and have looked at the bands and can't see how they can easily be changed through that inspection plate but one individual said he could change a band in 20 minutes. Can you change then on the road?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 09:36 am:

Ck out the information about changing bands in the Ford shop manual. If your bands have the detachable ears it can be done. The first time will be hard but after that it becomes fairly easy. Notice I said 'fairly easy'!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 09:55 am:

Curtis

Regarding a 20 minute band change, if you or anyone else is installing Kevlar bands, it is advisable to do it with the hog's head removed. Form the bands into a perfect circle that will fully release from the drums and not drag anywhere and then pay scrupulous attention to installing the bands without any distortion.

Cotton is far more forgiving in this regard, but have a far shorter life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 10:56 am:

Matt, "GM" and "SF" marks are jobbers who made the parts for Ford.

Changing to demountable bands, the low speed pedal shaft and adjusting screw needs to be updated to the "improved" type.

I can see the advantage for later cars with starter and the heavier cast-iron hogsheads, but my personal preference is to pull the hogshead and do the job "old school". Less chance of losing something down in the transmission. As Scott notes, ideally bands should be perfectly round (whatever lining material you choose to use). Snaking bands out the inspection cover always stresses the bands, and a stiff lining (like wood) adds to the difficulty. Another note, for my part, I really, really like to have a matched set of bands in my T, the "assortments" from different makers seem always to be a little awry, and the additional problem of demountable ears from different makers adds still another layer of difficulty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 07:33 pm:

I too, like to use a matched set of bands...probably just a personal quirk more than an absolute necessity.

While discussing bands, also make sure the "ears" on the bands will sit square to the actuator shafts when installed. They sometimes are bent inward from many years of heavy stomping, and when that happens, the springs are more apt to jump a coil through them and goof up the return pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 07:41 pm:

Also make sure the demountable ears are on the left.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 10:29 pm:

I bet it makes a difference what king of lining you are using. Like wood?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt the Headlight Lens Guy n California on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 12:06 am:

Well this is enlightening! I didn't realize how the removable ears are not really that big of an improvement especially for the earlier hog heads.

John, Among the challenges I put the ears on the right side.

Rich, thanks for explaining the markings. I have to research the difference of the "improved" slow speed adjusting screw.

Matt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 07:33 am:

There is a reason the demountable ears are supposed to be on the drivers side.

I wonít install ďGM COĒ bands. They are not heat treated the same, are too soft and not springy enough to withstand installation thru the inspection cover without becoming distorted. This is particularly important if you install Kevlar bands. A distorted Kevlar band may increase your risk of cracking a drum.

Iíve also found, that while the Ford book says you can install demountable ear bands in earlier cars that originally didnít have them; casting variations in individual trans covers that present clearance problems are present in about half of the earlier covers. Back in the day, with cotton bands, a little area of the band would have quickly worn away and not been a problem, but with Kevlar, you increase your risk of a cracked drum if your fit isnít perfect.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt the Headlight Lens Guy n California on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 11:15 am:

Adam,
That is insightful to know that the differences between covers could prevent replacing demountable bands.

Now I know that I should just use Ford bands...

Thanks,
Matt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, November 13, 2017 - 11:49 am:

That GM band is for a different GENERAL MOTORS transmission and about 1/4th to 5/8th inch longer.

It will not work!

I'm not sure about the other Brand X band.


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