Seen on tbay...
My favorite year. And this one looks very nice
He did such a nice job, I wonder why he didn't paint the horn?
Awww , Larry ?
It really is nice.
Oh that makes me want to restore mine!!!!
I have dealt with the owner of this car, and he is the true definition of a "perfectionist". Purchasing anything including this car, have comfort knowing it will be as close to perfect as any human could restore. Damn, sure wished I was born rich instead of good look'n cause I would own it in a heart beat. Good luck with your sale Larry, the first person that see's it, IT'S GONE !!!
See this post for more on this same car:
It will be interesting to know what it sells for.
Good question, and I meant to address that in the ad. As I stated, the car was in exceptional original condition when I purchased it. The horn was in great condition with hardly a ding on it. There was no indication that it had ever been removed from the car and there was not a spec of black paint on it anywhere. I have owned several 1913's over the years and have studied a lot of photographs as well, many showing an all brass horn with black and brass lights instead of the painted horn as described in the judging guidelines. A couple of years ago there was an original dealer photo posted here of a new 1913 with the tags still hanging on the top irons. The car had black & brass lights, windshield & side lights but the horn on it was all brass as well. I just tried to find that photo by searching "new 1913 Model T Ford Touring" but could not find the photo. But what I did notice was at least half, if not most of the pictures that did come up showed 1913's with brass horns. The judging guidelines are an invaluable tool but many times there are still questions. I did follow the judging guidelines very closely during my restoration but on this one issue I really wanted to leave the car the way I thought it originally came. If the buyer would like the horn painted as described in the judging guidelines, I would be more than happy to paint it that way for them. Someone once said, "When it comes to the production of the Model T Ford, one thing we know for sure, is nothing is for sure."
Larry & Larry...when I bought my '13 Touring a coupla years ago, it too had an all brass horn. But, as I wanted it judged at the Finger Lakes tour, I felt it best to paint the dang thing. I very reluctantly did, but I guess it was a good thing, 'cause the car ended up garnering the Gold Plaque. I would love to have Larry G's car as a "companion" to my Clarabelle. She's pretty sweet looking, but I do drive the crap out of her. The other one I just couldn't.
Since weíre talking about variations; My Ď13 touring has its original interior and floor mats and my front mat is black, not white.
Mine's turning black - does that count ? : )
I have seen quite a few original era photos of late '12s with black and brass lamps. Usually, all the lamps are either black and brass, or all brass. But I have also seen a few where headlamps were one way, and sidelamps are another (usually cannot see the tail-lamp in the same photo with a good look at the headlamps). Of course, something could have been changed early on. But there is no reason to expect that Ford, their branch assemblies, or especially the dealers, would make all lamps AND the horn to match. From many discussions about original era photos, I would expect that many early '13s had the horn as all brass. And even Royce agreed that the black and brass lamps showed up before the end of the '12 model year. Though it may not have been a lot before.
Larry Gresh, are these the pictures you're referring to?
There was just one photo and it was an actual Dealer photo with The car sitting in front of the building. If I remember correctly, there was an early truck down the street on the left of the picture. The pictures You posted appear to show a black and Brass horn.
The pictures shown on the thread linked by Derek K are of a late '13 touring. So it should have the black horn as well as black and brass lamps. I made the comment on that thread, and looked at it again, that the car pictured there has the '13 style doors (long, down to the bottom of the body). Yet in at least three of the shots, it clearly shows the longer rear cross-member which showed up somewhere about May of 1913, more than two-thirds of the way through the model year. This is even more rare, as due to the weakness of the rear section of the touring body, Ford began using the '14 style bodies around July of 1913, a bit before the official start of the '14 model year. There was of course a fair amount of crossover time when both styles were leaving the assembly plants. Larry S could I am sure clarify this, but I think the runabouts continued the long doors a few months longer.
And thank you Derek K! I had these pictures bookmarked on the MTFCI forum (slightly higher quality image), and when they crashed and burned, lost access to them. I had tried myself to find them about a month ago (knowing that these had been posted here as well), and with my difficulties with google, was not able to find this thread. So, again, thank you.
I still prefer this forum, and its format, over any other I visit on the web. I get what I want. No glitz, no ads, no fancy crap I don't need. Just great and helpful information. Most of the time.
Link to a timely "old photo" of another transitional '13 touring.
The car just eclipsed the $35,000 mark. I'm amazed. It's beautiful for sure. But it seems to me that it is a bit "over-restored".
Over-restored wouldn't be a real problem for me; one or two driving seasons would take care of that. -I happen to like cars that are "drivers," but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate breathtaking perfection. -For a '13 Touring to surpass the $35,000 mark is unusual, but when that kind of thing happens, it's usually at auction (for a collector car is worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for it). -I have to admit, though, that there's a part of me that enjoys seeing somebody's uncompromising attention to detail pay off. -I guess perfection shouldn't come cheap.
A lot of time and money spent? Does not equal "worth a lot of money".
However, if someone were to give you a decent original, or a good older restoration, '13 T touring? You could not get it restored to that level of quality and correctness, for that kind of money. There are people that want one of the best! While an average nice '13 wouldn't likely go much over 20K? One this nice and correctly done, really could, and should go well beyond.
People need to understand that one of the "best of the best" being worth some amount, does NOT mean that average or even above average nice cars are worth nearly as much.
It is interesting that this discussion is here at the same time as Fred Houston's Laurel speedster is being discussed in the same line on another thread. The best of the best ARE worth more. But this is something that comes up often in this hobby. People see top quality restorations of specifically desirable cars sell for big bucks! Then they think their poor condition wrong model rust bucket is also worth huge dollars. Other people think that just because it shines so nice, it should be worth a fortune in spite of a lot of wrong year parts, horrible color, wrong upholstery, and the top doesn't fit.
It takes both, a desirability factor, and a proper quality to break through that particular glass ceiling.
This is why I generally do not like appraisers (with one notable exception who happens to have commented on the Houston thread). The intricacies of collector car values take years to understand. And few people calling themselves "appraisers" or "dealers" know one tenth of what they need to understand. At least, that has been my experience in talking with many of them.
I do not know Larry G personally. Only what I know of him from this forum. I hate to think of doing that kind of a restoration, putting so much time and personal effort into it. And then selling it. I hope he is doing what is best for him, and wish him well.
The car is fabulous! And even I don't mind a little "over-restoration" sometimes.
Lord knows, I will never have anything that nice.