Model T Test Run 1908

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Model T Test Run 1908
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Guy Forstrom on Sunday, November 19, 2017 - 09:23 am:

I am sure most are aware that the test run for the Model T was made in October of 1908 from Detroit to Iron Mountain Mich. An article was published in the Ford Times. These two photos were discovered at the Benson Ford some years ago and are believed to be the test run car. All of this is not neccessarily new. But I have added a newspaper blurb that we found in the Iron Mountain News about the arrival of Ford.
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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, November 19, 2017 - 10:23 am:

I think MR Ford felt fine arriving in Detroit because he took a train?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, November 19, 2017 - 04:36 pm:

This trip has been previously discussed at length in various publications. One of the interesting facts that came out from the trip is the high oil consumption on this car for this trip which averaged 118 miles per GALLON of oil!!! (1357 miles divided by 11 1/2 gallons {not quarts} of oil).

That's why the return trip used a ferry to cross Lake Michigan to make the trip shorter. Because of this excessive oil consumption several changes were made to the new Model T's being produced.

Does anyone care to comment on what those early changes to Model T's were to reduce oil consumption?

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, November 19, 2017 - 06:04 pm:

Keith,I think there was a way oil was supplied to the 4'th main on the very first few? This story does not mention the spilled battery and the removal of same.Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Borland. Bathurst. NSW. Australia. on Sunday, November 19, 2017 - 08:47 pm:

Open valve gallery with total loss of oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Sunday, November 19, 2017 - 08:59 pm:

I always understood the oil problem was solved somewhere in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan when they took a break and beat shut the tube funneling oil to the fourth main, as Bud said. There was a tube to the back just like the one to the first main we all are familiar with. I understand closing that tube drastically cut oil use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Sunday, November 19, 2017 - 11:09 pm:

This was in a Vintage Ford article some years ago and the so-called oil consumption was discussed at length. The conclusion, as I remember, was the units for oil consumption should have been quarts.
Quite honestly if the oil consumption was in gallons, the oil would have exceeded the cost of gas :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, November 19, 2017 - 11:27 pm:

I wish Trent would give his thoughts before history is re written. Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Monday, November 20, 2017 - 01:47 am:

In the first 1908-09 cars there was a scavenging system which funneled oil through a tube and dumped an apparently large amount of oil on the forth main. The tube was eliminated very early in production. This presumably cured the problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Monday, November 20, 2017 - 01:54 pm:

Sorry for the "off topic" observation, but wow, that was beautiful pavement in the Piquette parking lot in those days! Asphalt? Piquette could use some of that paving today!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lew Morrill on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 10:07 am:

As late as the 1970's Harley Davidson didn't recognize high oil consumption until it exceeded one quart per 200 miles. With all the leaks from a lack of good seals and design that was not intended to be fluid tight I'm not sure that 100 miles per gallon of oil in a model T was unusual.

It is interesting that something may have been done in the Northwoods as according to the trip log the car used 3 times the oil on the trip from Milwaukee to Iron Mountain compared to the return trip Iron mountain to Milwaukee.

I would still love to know if this record reflects quarts instead of gallons of oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 10:30 am:

While there are a couple of mistakes the book Tin Lizzie by Stern printed in 1955 say's gallons.Many of the people who brought forth/built/and drove the very early cars were still alive at that time.The Ford Times often leave's things to be guessed at such as the facts of the great race.Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 06:08 pm:

I hope Trent is enjoying the holiday week with his family! I also wish he would chime in here. If anyone really knows, it would be Trent. I have read several things (short articles, posts on this forum, etc) about that trip. I know some of what I have read was not correct, but a lot of it was. I am not sure all which is which. As I recall, Trent has addressed this issue in the past. If I were any good at searching? I would try to look for it.
As I recall, one of the other engineer types with Henry on that trip did break off, pinch, or otherwise roadside modification that internal oil line either before, or early on the return trip, resulting in much less oil loss.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 08:46 pm:

The story of the Model T that was driven to Iron Mountain can be found in a 2004 Vintage Ford article entitled “Model T #1. The citation is The Vintage Ford, Volume 39, Number 6 November-December 2004, pp.37-44.

I believe that Hap Tucker has secured permission to post articles from past issues of the Vintage Ford from the MTFCA. I do not have permission to do so, and would be in violation of Federal Copyright law if I were to do so.

In the article, there is quite a bit of discussion about the car that made the trip to Iron Mountain and back. The problem we have always had is just what do we call this car? It was a prototype Model T, so we do not know what if any identification number it may have had. Some have suggested it be referred to as Model T #0. Others have suggested that it be called “The Muddy Car”.

In either case, the car did have a big problem with oil consumption on the way up to Iron Mountain. We also know that the oil consumption was much more reasonable on the way back. This suggests that a modification was made by Mr. Ford’s companions on the trip, Bert Scott and Jim Nichols. As has been noted above, the prototype Model T and the very first few production Model Ts did have a second oil line running from a trough riveted to the inside of the transmission cover and running to the rear to #4 bearing at the back of the engine. The second oil line may have been the cause of the excessive oil consumption, through leakage from #4 bearing to the u-joint and on to the ground or down the driveshaft to the rear axle. The Ford Times article about the car and the trip does not specify the cause of the excessive oil consumption. I have always presumed that while Mr. Ford was out hunting, he charged either Scott or Nichols to “fix it”.

An additional piece of evidence pointing to the second oil line as the cause of the leak is the fact that the drawing for the second oil line still survives (on film) in the collections of the Benson Ford Research Center at The Henry Ford. The drawing for the second oil line is marked obsolete shortly after Mr. Ford and his party returned to Detroit.

The Model T#1 article points out that the very first production Model Ts had a number of flaws that were quickly corrected before the end of 1908.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - 10:31 pm:

Thank you Trent B, Have a wonderful holiday!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Wednesday, November 22, 2017 - 03:40 am:

Wayne - out of what Trent Boggess wrote above (which is excellent, may I add?) how do you know that he is about to go on a holiday?
John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, November 22, 2017 - 04:38 pm:

John S, Nations, separated by a common language. Here in the USofA, this is Thanksgiving week. Tomorrow (Thursday) is Thanksgiving day. It is one of the bigger traditional national holidays of the year here. A celebration of the first Thanksgiving of about three centuries ago that celebrated a bountiful harvest that saved one of the earliest colonies on this continent from starving to death. The local "Indians" (not really related to India) had shown the colonists some tricks and indigenous plants better for farming that the colonists were not aware of, resulting in that life saving harvest. They then shared (somewhat) in the first Thanksgiving. Sadly, that spirit of sharing did not continue for long enough.
Still, the holiday is a tradition, and celebrated by most of the nation for one thing or another. For some, it is family and food, others, football (USA style, not soccer). For many, it is the official opening of the Christmas season (Commercialmas would be a better word for most).
Regardless, Happy Thanksgiving to all, here in the USA, or others abroad whether the greeting makes sense or not.

Frankly John S, I am not certain if your question was a serious one? Or in jest? But since I know that you are in New Zealand (one of the other colonies), I believed it needed an answer.
Have a wonderful day, my friend.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Wednesday, November 22, 2017 - 11:42 pm:

Thanks Wayne - I simply had not twigged to Thanksgiving. Of course I now see what you mean!

Yum - you Americans get to treat yourselves to roast turkey twice in quick succession - Thanksgiving, and then Christmas.

As an aside, I wasn't aware of the Indians' input to the harvest for the first thanksgiving. And yes, sad that that spirit of sharing didn't continue.

Happy thanksgiving!

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeff cordes on Wednesday, November 22, 2017 - 11:56 pm:

As a driver of an open valve T I can testify to losing a quart every 50 miles through the lifters.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Thursday, November 23, 2017 - 12:05 pm:

We put 0-rings in the tappet bores on open valve engines. No more mess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Thursday, November 23, 2017 - 12:09 pm:

The personal mention is interesting. What does the J. stand for? Didn't know Henry was such a nimrod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, November 24, 2017 - 09:47 pm:

Sorry, I missed this one as I still have a cold....

Trent's excellent article "Model T Number One" from the Nov-Dec 2004 "Vintage Ford" magazine is posted on an earlier forum thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/492557.html?1415528250 scroll about 1/2 way down. It is the posting right after the photo of the 1928 model year Model A Ford engine serial number A1 --
By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, November 09, 2014 - 09:56 pm: (Thank you Trent for all your support to our club and hobby.)

And there were a lot of other early T comments and worth while links in that thread.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 12:58 pm:

Thank you Hap for giving us the link to the Model T #1 article.

While reading through that article I realized that there was no mention of the 2nd oil line that sent a flow of oil to the transmission ball cap. I guess I have never written that article. I am aware of three images of the 2nd oil line. The first is a factory drawing of the first version of the pressed steel transmission cover. The second is another factory part drawing showing the oil line itself. Finally, the third is an artist drawing showing the Model T’s transmission from above. The second oil line can be seen along the passenger side of of the transmission.

The Model T went through a series of changes between June 1908 thought June 1909. Most of the changes seem to have occurred after the first Model Ts were on the road, and several major flaws became apparent. We know the design changes occurred because the documentation survives in the Ford engineering document collection. However, no October 1908 production Model Ts seem to have survived down through time to the present.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 02:41 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 02:58 pm:

These 3 pictures are of the inside of the pressed steel transmission cove from 1909 car #314. The first two are of the funnel that was used to provide oil to the forth main. As you can see, it has been closed so it no longer provides oil. This was a bit of a surprise to me because this car is extremely low mileage and was in fact never sold by the original dealership, it remained in the dealers care until the early 1950’s. The third picture of of the trough which was designed to provide oil to the oil tube to the rods and the tube that provide oil to the rear main. By the time my car was assembled, that rear tube was had already been discontinued and the rear funnel was added. The rear portion of the trough in this cover has been closed off because the rear oil tube was never installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Saturday, November 25, 2017 - 03:48 pm:

Thank you to everyone!!Bud.


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