Flat or round? Like originl or functional?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Flat or round? Like originl or functional?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 03:22 am:

I've decided to buy a new radiator for the one of my T's and I can see Brassworks makes them like original or with flat pipes (functional better).
I'm somewhat in favor of the original but does anybody have experience if it can cool sufficient? Denmark will seldom have temperatures over 110 F.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 04:24 am:

Michael,
The copy of the original work fine in high temps, we in Australia do reach temps of 40C+ some times, does Denmark get to 110F, 43C?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 05:24 am:

Michael, no matter how good a round tube radiator will cool, a flat tube will cool much better. Unless you are going to show your T, I doubt anyone will notice the difference in appearance. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 06:30 am:

The Model T works best when it is bumping right up against, but not at, the boiling point. Henry designed it this way. When the engine runs near the boiling point, it keeps condensation from collecting in the oil. A round tube is all any model T ever needs, so long as it is being operated within the design parameters with which it was intended.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 06:41 am:

James, didn't the later T's ('26-'27) come with flat tube radiators? Seems like I have read that before somewhere. I could well be wrong though. :-) I have a flat tube era correct radiator on my '25 coupe and have never had any problem with condensation in the oil. Maybe I've just been lucky. :-) Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 07:20 am:

I have both, three with original Ford radiators, three flat tubes. No overheating issues with any of them. My 14 had heating issues because of a large over bore and very rusty cooling passages in the block creating not enough heat transfer. The flat tube cured it. If you have no problems to begin with the round is fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 07:25 am:

I probably should have made my last post a little clearer. The original Ford radiators are round tube, the three flat tube radiators are new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 08:21 am:

I hope ya all are right about the flat tube radiators.
I just spent all my lunch money on one.

Looks like I will be on reduced rations for a few weeks.
(we eat very well at our home :-) )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter B. Ratledge on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 08:34 am:

I agree with James, The round tube is all you need. I drive my 11 touring on tours.The car runs better when it's warm. I use a Motor Meter. You can see the Temp go up and down as you are driving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 09:04 am:

I have a brassworks round tube in my roadster. Never once have I had an over heating issue. The previous owner bought it, I might have bought the flat tube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 10:10 am:

Very interesting. I have seen reports of guys with the flat tube type running too cool. Even with my original marginal round tube I have never really had over heating issues.

RE; never had any problem with condensation in the oil

Even with my original round tube I have that issue. I think it more of an environmental issue. Portland is blessed most of the year with a lot of moisture in the air plus my storage is not in a fully enclosed heated garage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 10:21 am:

I have an original '15 round tube on my '13, and it cools nicely. I've always thought modern flat cores were the way to go, but I'm changing my opinion. I only wish the Brassworks would make their radiators exactly like the originals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Prince Madras, Oregon on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 11:20 am:

If you have a condensation problem you can run a thermostat to get it to temp faster but what it boils down to is that you aren't driving your T enough to get it to temp for a long enough period of time to cook out the moisture. Get out and drive it more, the more you drive it the better it runs and you are a safer driver because you get use to driving a T and it becomes a reaction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 11:23 am:

I had many round tube BW radiators, only one gave me heating a heating problem. It was my first T and I suspect I didn't know how to set the spark and gas mixture. I also had a flat tube radiator and it ran cool, perhaps too cool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 11:28 am:

Oh it got driven enough to get fully warmed up. :-) Before you ask or suggest, I did pressure check for internal leaks, none found.
Nellybell has been down since June so I am a little tiny bit out of practice, but like riding a bicycle, it will come back real quick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 26, 2017 - 11:39 am:

Michael, if you're buying for one of your black era cars, you might consider this: http://bergsradiator.com/modelt.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 01:58 am:

Both my Tís (1926 and 1910) have Brassworks flat Tube radiators in them. They have never boiled (but I do run coolant) and if running too cold is an issue you can always block some of the air flow through it. This is far easier than trying to get it to run cool! I have a policy of the largest battery and radiator in my vehicles.
On a recent T Rally we ran a ďguess your radiator temperatureĒ competition. Mine was 65.3c , coolest 59.1 and hottest 79.4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Dowell in Michigan Thumb on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 02:51 am:

I have a Berg's radiator on my 26 Runabout. I'm very pleased with it as it works great and looks great. After about 8 years ended up with a small leak. Mr. Berg stood by his product and repaired it. He is a great guy. (No I don't know him personally, met him at Hershey). Anyway I would and have recommended him. My2Ę.
Brian.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 11:53 am:

I am also looking to buy a new radiator for my 26 Coupe. Looking online at both Brassworks and Bergs, flat tube types. It looks to me like the Brassworks has 2 rows of tubes, while the Bergs has 4 rows of tubes. Can anyone confirm this?

(Message edited by Scott C. on November 27, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 12:30 pm:

Also, the Brassworks has 6 fins per inch and the Bergs has 8 fins per inch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 12:31 pm:

It looks like Lang's sells the Brassworks ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 12:46 pm:

Another question. Are these experiences with, or without water pumps?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The Brassworks on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 12:47 pm:

The elliptical shape of the tube, tube wall thickness, tube material, tube layout and fin density, fin thickness, fin surface are variables that have changed over the years to address hotter engines. Ford integrated such design changes in later production years.

Itís a balancing act between aesthetic and functionality and cost/price. Naturally different buyers and restorers have varying opinions on this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 04:21 pm:

Thanks all for overwhelming responses!
You can see the picture of my "rolling stock" in the profile.
The blur fordor now have a recored radiator fixed by a local radiatorshop now closed. It was the first investment I did and among the best. No overheating issues with that since, but it is a modern core.
On thursday I will drive Santa to lit a christmas tree event in the red pick-up. The radiator on this is now very leaky - to leaky to drive it on thursday, so my quickfix will be to swap radiators - i.e. move the fordor radiator to the pick-up.
Now I need a radiator. I will not spend time or money reparing the old original radiator. It's 95 years old and who knows if it will continue to disintegrate.
The blue fordor I consider the most "original" and won't make any changes as such. Originally it was a touring, but at some point in late twenties it was changed to a closed fordor.
The pick-up on the other hand was build/restored in 1963 out of a running chassis from a 1921 car, a front half of what I believe is a 1919 touring and rhe rear and bed is new from 63. This one I do not have the same restrictions for as it is not really an original car with unbroken history since 1921. Over time I may add Ruckstell and I have an extra June 1st 1925 engine (first day with enhanced engine) I have ideas making a "super engine" with Scart crank, balanced flywheel, drums, rods and pistons.
The radiator with modern core fits better to the red pick-up and I will now buy a new original radiator for the fordor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 11:53 pm:

These Tís had a water pump 144F, 141 & 138.4

These donít 149.5, 153.3, 174.9, 158.9, 176.9 (no fan belt),
158, 159.8, 169.2

All vehicles had a variation of radiators from near new to 30 years plus.

Cheers.Alan in Western Australia


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