Can Not install U-Joint and pin.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Can Not install U-Joint and pin.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 09:59 pm:

I bought this center-door out of Houston with the motor out of the car. It came with 2 rear ends, the one in the car was rebuilt and I was told at a cost of $2500. The universal was not installed. Short story long, the universal will not pin up. The front bushing measures 3 and 9/16's in from the bell. The old rear end is 4 and a 1/4. Need to move the bushing in about 11/16's. Using a 1" pipe and shop hammer it will not move. Tomorrow I guess I'll pull the tube and shaft to see what's the dill pickle. The shaft is in the right position to accept the pin through the holes and the bushing was drilled in the grease hole, but the bushing will not let the U-joint go in near far enough. Anyone ever run into this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 10:39 pm:

Is it an original Babbitt type or a repro brass bushing ? You more than likely need to "face" off the bushing but your measurements won't allow that much material to be removed ????? There were repro driveshafts that didn't have the pin hole in the proper location, so I've heard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Fielding "Ewe-taw" on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 10:44 pm:

Bob,
Interestingly I had the same problem just a couple of months ago. I was using a new driveshaft bushing and finally figured out it was the outside diameter of the flange of the bushing. The bushing it self fit fine in the bore but the outside diameter of the flange was the problem. I did the same measurements as you and figured out it was the bushing not seating far enough.
I pulled the bushing and checked and it was too large. I chucked it up in the lathe and took a bit off and it fit just fine.
I don't remember what the measurements were but it wasn't too hard to fix, just aggravating.
Hope that helps,
Kevin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, November 27, 2017 - 11:34 pm:

One way is as suggested above. If you have access to a lathe, take a cleanup cut off the outside so it's a slip fit in the tube. This way you can see how much needs to come off the face. Reinstall find how much need to be removed from face. Face it, install and if all is good clean everything and reinstall with sleeve lock.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Wednesday, November 29, 2017 - 07:09 pm:

Kevin, you hit the nail on the head. The marks on the bushing show how far it was in. And this was done by a major T shop, check everything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Thursday, November 30, 2017 - 10:05 am:

I had a real time figuring out why the u joint would not line up with the hole in the driveshaft. It was a NOS u joint. I put an old wore out u joint on the end of the driveshaft and the hole lined up completely. I took the bushing out twice at least, then realized there is a ridge that only allows the bushing in the torque tube to go down so far. FINALLy I realized that the bottom of the u joint had been shaved off about 1/4 inch when comparing it to the NOS joint. I looked at other u joints, same thing, the bottom (one that sits on the bushing) was 1/4 inch less in length. Finally found another good u joint that fits great.It has already been shorted 1/4 inch so the hole lines up completely. It took me two days to figure this out!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, November 30, 2017 - 11:29 am:

That's because whomever did the previous work on the driveshaft didn't have the proper facing tool so it was easier to just grind off the backside of the u-joint - seen it several times before !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Thursday, November 30, 2017 - 02:45 pm:

As Kevin Fielding explained the thrust outside diameter was too big to allow the bushing to seat in the torque tube. Milled off a small amount diameter, drove it in, reamed and faced it and Iím ready to put the tube on the axle. Iíve been told that the u-joint pin is not required with a Reagan spool, but seems like there is a little added insurance with it in. The only down side, other than the big money spent at the T shop and the time spent to fix the problem, is that the bushing now has two grease holes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, November 30, 2017 - 08:40 pm:

Yes this is in all caps! YES THE PIN IS REQUIRED, IN FACT I WOULD HAVE TO DO SOME SEARCHING AND THINK EVEN HE SAY IT IS NEEDED. The pin also sets/locks the rotational center line between the engine and drive line. Also if not installed it will allow ware in the tail stock hole and machined area of the drive shaft as it moves back and forth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, Mostly in Dearborn on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 07:48 am:

I agree with Mark and also remember John Regan saying you don't want the center of rotation of the U-joint to vary with the center of the ball. I recall John's comment was that the bushing could be faced to the point where there is much clearance because his bearing spool established the fore-aft relationship.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeff cordes on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 06:21 pm:

I've run without the pin for 10s of thousands of miles with a modified pinion cartridge. The ujoint has never been a problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 07:13 pm:

jeff:

Just add the word "yet". There are lots of modified ujoints and brand new ones that are made wrong too. It is a lot of work to pull the rear end and fix it yet only a bit more to fix it right. I have ALWAYS said you MUST pin the ujoint. You won't realize exactly why until you have trouble. If the ujoint is allowed to slide fore and aft on the end of the drive shaft then you will want the end of the drive shaft to be hard and it isn't. It also isn't a precision fit on the end of the ujoint but the square end of the ujoint part that sticks into the motor is indeed a precision fit into the back of the motor and that is/was also a problem with the all new ujoint - namely the front end is/was not the correct size to start with. Some filed that down which is about as bad as filing down a motor crankshaft rod journal that is too big. If the joint is not pinned and slides off center then it can come back to center with a slam and there will be stress on a lot of parts when that happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeff cordes on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 08:23 pm:

John you are wrong, the problem would have presented itself by now


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 10:18 pm:

The dimension on the location of the ujoint pin is +/- .005 in location with a reference point that is the back surface of the pinion gear at the bottom end of the drive shaft. If the pivot point of the ujoint wasn't important why so tight of a tolerance on the location of the hole? Its your car of course but ujoints don't wear out in 10's of thousands of miles. The way I see it if I am right and you are wrong then I don't lose. If you are right and I am wrong and I have pinned the ujoint - I still don't lose. :-)


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