New z head

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: New z head
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson_graham nc on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 07:29 pm:

Just unpacked my z head and it looks great if you
Ground the z off you could not tell it is not original but like Minnie pearl would do I will fly the colors. I will give a performance update at
310.00 plus 20.00 shipping it's a good deal. Philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 10:17 pm:

You might want to bolt it up loosely with NO gasket and turn the engine over by hand - just to check for clearance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Friday, December 01, 2017 - 11:10 pm:

Check to make sure it's milled flat or you may be blowing head gaskets. I had to have two of them milled. Do as Steve said, especially if you have to mill it. I had to rework it to get clearance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Saturday, December 02, 2017 - 12:52 pm:

Phil, You'll love it,,Do check it without the gasket and don't forget the Conventional antifreeze.

You going to paint it or polish it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, December 02, 2017 - 03:47 pm:

Steve or Dan - This might be a good time to ask a slightly "off-topic" question that has always bothered me:

Is it possible for a "shade-tree mechanic" like me to actually check a cylinder head for flatness with a good straight-edge? Or is it necessary to actually have a machine shop set up a head on a milling machine and actually take a light cut to determine if the surface of the head is perfectly flat!

My thought is that warpage of only a thousandth or two (difficult to detect with only a straight-edge) will cause an area where even properly torqued head bolts will not be sufficient,.....????

Your thoughts,......????

Thanks,........harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Saturday, December 02, 2017 - 04:52 pm:

Tom Carnegie at Antique Auto Ranch of Spokane sells a high quality copper gasket that is different from what the rest of the vendors sell. I agree with Dan I'm getting the head milled. I was blowing head gaskets with the Z head l until I had it milled. I then installed the Carnegie brothers head gasket and have had no problems since.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, December 02, 2017 - 05:10 pm:

Jim - Sent you a "PM",....see ya' at the club Christmas Party tonight,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Saturday, December 02, 2017 - 05:43 pm:

Check your head bolt height also. Some may be too long if head or block gets cut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Saturday, December 02, 2017 - 09:47 pm:

Harold, they were so far off a straight edge easily picked it up. The first one I bought was so bad and not just the flatness I sent it back. The second, besides having to have it milled the rear water jacket hole was way off and I had to do a lot of die-grinding there as well as where the pistons hit the head. I also had issues with gasket fit between the cylinders. I'm surprised I haven't blown a head gasket, and I carry a spare gasket for when it does.
For my 24 I bought a Prus head, it was perfect right out of the box, just bolted it on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, December 02, 2017 - 09:49 pm:

Don't forget to clean out the bolt holes in the block & run a tap to clean threads


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson_graham nc on Sunday, December 03, 2017 - 07:16 pm:

I will check it out good it looks great I could scan it and surface each combustion chamber on the
Haas machine but I think that is like putting
Nitrous on a hay wagon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, December 03, 2017 - 07:30 pm:

When I attended a club tech session recently 1 of the members that gave me the 26 chassis I am building my speedster out of showed me his Z head. Whatever transpired, the car ran hot and blew a small "gash" in the aluminum between 3 and 4 and it blew the gasket. he had someone try to weld the area up and it did not turn out good.It seems that area of the head was lower than surrounding area by a visible amount using a straight edge.So I brought it home,took it to a plating shop and had it glass beaded and acid vatted so that a weld would work well and my neighbor is going to build the low area on the head so it can be milled back flat. My neighbor was a welder for a dental equipment manufacturer for 40 years,so he is good with a tig torch.

I was going to get 1 that someone has locally for 200 bucks used,but after seeing what this 1 did,I am holding off on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson_graham nc on Sunday, December 03, 2017 - 07:58 pm:

Well I've read good and bad I also know that
Some people seem to have trouble no matter what.
I am a machinist so I understand how it is cut
It's fly cut and if the head on the mill is
In good it should be flat. I will indicate it tomorrow and report back


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, December 03, 2017 - 09:13 pm:

That would be interesting to see how it checks out.thanks for letting us know what you find.

Is there not a cast iron high compression head option?
I think the idea behind aluminum is it was probably easier to cast,and theoretically would dissipate heat better.But dissimilar metals close together with a gasket looks like it would be a issue.I read somewhere here about a special head gasket,that might be a good idea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson_graham nc on Sunday, December 03, 2017 - 09:18 pm:

Plus makes an iron one


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson_graham nc on Sunday, December 03, 2017 - 09:19 pm:

Prus I mean


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Sunday, December 03, 2017 - 09:38 pm:

I have two Prus heads. Top quality. Like Philip says, Prus makes iron and aluminum. The combustion chamber is quite different from the Z head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson_graham nc on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 02:35 pm:

ok here is what i found using the spot faced
holes as a datum is how i suspect he machines them
i saw no more than .003 on the indicator. very good in my opinion as most of this could be in the spot
faces. philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson_graham nc on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 02:52 pm:

using 3 blocks instead of 4 i got less than .002
variance. if it dont seal i dont think it will be the heads fault. philip


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brad Marble on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 04:16 pm:

To check the fit of the head to the block, I clean the top of the block and set the head on with with a couple of head bolts threaded in loose and go around the head with a feeler gauge, a couple of thousands should be no problem. Brad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, December 05, 2017 - 12:32 pm:

Philip,

Dad installed a Z head at least 30 years ago. Same head & same head gasket still going strong today. You'll like it!

BTW, I believe some original cast iron heads have the "Z" on them as well. (Might be wrong there... let's see if others back me up)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, December 05, 2017 - 01:06 pm:

Jerry

Yep, those Model T cyl heads are like the alphabet, lots of different casting i.d. letters at the outlet.

Iron Ford "Z" head!




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson_graham nc on Tuesday, December 05, 2017 - 01:12 pm:

jerry

did your dad use the head saver thingy that some
advise to combat erosion. philip


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