After Steve's mishap I started looking real close to my "New" 25,this is some of what I found
As you can see there are no cotter pins in any of the Engine Pan bolts and some of the nuts aren't even correct(new engine bolt kit on the way)
No cotter pins in any of the steering linkage bolts!
Spring Perch and radius rod nope none here either
Radius rod where it connects to the oil pan bolt instead of stud on left,right side is correct but not safety wired!
Brake shoe pivot bolt nope none there either
I found 2 cotter pins! unfortunately they are installed in the brake cam lever, Hummmm doesn’t seem like they belong there!
My question is is this enough or should I go to HF and get another package?\
LOL, that pack should be enough!
I may be mistaken, but I believe that Ford stopped putting cotter pins in the oil pan nuts at some point, maybe around 1925.
For all the newbies, never loosen a nut to get the cotter pin holes to line up! The nut must be tight! Either tighten the nut up a little more, or add a washer, or file some off the back of the nut so that the cotter pin holes line up when the nut is tight!
Mark My 27 has the cotter pins in the oil pan bolts.
Mark, you are correct. They stopped using cotter pins on the pan in '25. G.R., my guess is someone else put 'em in at a later date. Still not a bad idea, but boy are they ever a PIA!! But you sure do want them everywhere else, especially in the steering gear!
I avoid assortments because they always include a lot of stuff I'll never use. I also use stainless so they won't get rusted in. The pan bolts are not so important, but those steering parts are another story. These lists recently posted by Dan Treace show the sizes and how many are needed on one car.
That should be enough, and then some.
I prefer to get the sizes I need. 3/32 x 3/4" is what I use alot of on T's Then 1/16 x 1/2" for comm and throttle rods and such.
I was excited about getting my speedometer installed and forgot to bend the cotter pin. It only lasted about a mile. I was glad that was the only problem, even better when I went back and found my gear.
I buy the sortment have containers witch i fill
Plus one with odd sguff like Steve J says you get buying .
If the pins to long cut it shorter once installed.
Use lock washer like on the motor and brake cross shaft and few other areas
Not doing show cars so the ones I work on get lock washers under the nuts on the pan to block bolts. Everything else gets cotter pins except the spark and throttle rods, they get hitch pin retainer clips.
While you are checking don't forget the cotter pin at the bolt that holds the fan arm on! Had one come loose, caught it before it did any damage. Noting like hearing a tick tick from the front of the engine!
This all explains why I REALLY like Loktite!! And a torque wrench. I reserve cotter pins for suspension parts and safety wire for the wishbone
The numbers in that list are awfully hard to read. Do I have these right?
3/32 x 1/2
3/32 x 3/5
3/32 x 3/4
3/32 x 1
1/16 x 1/2
1/8 x 1
It looks like 3/32 x 3/5 to me also. But isn't that a peculiar size?
I think the second one is supposed to be 3/32 x 3/4
Full disclosure those cotter pins were at a yard sale unopened with a price tag of $1.00 so they were very ...hummm frugal!
I doubt that there would be two groups of 3/32 x 3/4, so I'm going with 3/32 x 3/5 on the second group. Yes, it's an odd size. That wouldn't be the only odd size on a Model T.
I found a couple of items listed twice. Eliminating the duplicates, the total is a little lower.
Let me know if I missed anything.
In almost all cases, a 7/64" cotter pin will fill the hole better than a 3/32", thereby keeping things tight. If a pin doesn't quite fill the hole, there will be loosening in service, however slight.
You should peen those wheel hub bolts too while you are performing your safety upgrade.
I believe a great number of Forum readers have also checked every location on their T’s where a “split pin” should be fitted. Me included!
Alan in Western Australia
Every spring our club hold a safety check day. Cotter pins are a BIG part of the check list. The attached is from a 2015 T Tour, but still is the one used for our safety check day.
Jubilee T Tour Inspection sheet 2015.pdf (122.9 k)
Here is another period list of Model T cotter pins.
Hey G.R. ... that steering link on the tie rod is really bad. Do you need some parts? I'll give you what extra I have for free plus post if you send me some more pictures. I have some spindle arms, bushings etc ... and just tossed bolts that are 100x better than what are in your picture. I'll dig them out of the bone pile.
G.R. Looks to me like the radius rod is broken and a piece missing on one side. I think the lack of cotter pin is the minor problem.
Noel the radius rod is not broken must be a shadow or something.
Mark, I would be glad to pay postage for any parts that I can use I will take more pictures when I get home thank you.
If you look at original Ford parts lists, Ford had his cotter pins made to the length needed for use on HIS cars. To my knowledge few of those lengths are being made today.
By the looks of those front end parts, I'd say you should order some bushings, kingpins, and tie rod bolts as well.
Elizabeth's Hair Pins is a clearer look at what Dan posted. It has a few errors.
The fourth paragraph mentions 3/36 x 1/2", a size that appears nowhere in the list. I'm sure it should be 3/32 x 1/2".
The carburetor adjusting rod is listed twice under two different sizes. I would go with the second.
I believe Front radius rods (wishbone) should be Rear radius rods instead. The wishbone is held by nuts on the next item listed, Front spring perches.
I think I would drop the front axle assembly and check it completely out.
While your at it check the ball condition on the wishbone and where it connects to on the bottom of the crankcase.
Replacing all the bushings in the spring, perches and spindles will make a big difference in the way you car handles.
Jack up the front axle so that the wheels will clear the ground. Turn your steering wheel and you will soon find out how worn the front axle assembly is. It might surprise you and might keep you from having a bad accident.
Yep, I'm on it. I've ordered new bushings, and today I blasted a "new" front axle and a steering connecting rod. The wishbone is pretty good, but if I happen to have a better one I'll use it. I'm also replacing the mangled left perch.
I have learned a lot from this thread. It is certainly generous of Steve to share his misfortune with us, so that we can all learn.