Hap is Looking for Puzzle Pieces When did Ford of Canada start selling LHD starter equipped Ts in Canada? What about RHD starter equipped cars in Canada?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Hap is Looking for Puzzle Pieces When did Ford of Canada start selling LHD starter equipped Ts in Canada? What about RHD starter equipped cars in Canada?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 09:48 am:

Bottom Line Up Front: We would like to find some documentation or fossil evidence (i.e.19xx year original Canadian Fords with starters) on when Ford of Canada began selling LHD starter equipped Model Ts IN CANADA. Also, when if at all -- did Ford of Canada begin selling RHD starter equipped Model Ts IN CANADA. [Note we also would like to know that information for exports but we are discussing British Commonwealth Countries (excluding England that assembled their own Model Ts) on another thread. ]

Related item I suspect the demountable wheels were introduced to Canadian production before the starters were introduced especially for any RHD cars. Any thoughts on that or corrections?

The Model T Ford Club International Seventh Edition Judging Guidelines has 1919 as the year Ford of Canada introduced the starters. But the question is when in 1919? And it has the belt driven generator was used for the 1919 RHD cars. But again, when in 1919? And while produced by Ford of Canada, I dont think the belt driven generator was used in Canada is that correct? And I would suspect a Sep 1919 Canadian produced Model T would likely be called a 1920 model year? Yet another question.

But if anyone has advertisements I.e. come a dealer saying they have the starter equipped car in stock or the LHD starter equipped or RHD starter equipped car in stock etc.

We would like to have Canadian serial numbers for both the highest number non-generator block as well as the lowest generator block. And if available the casting date on the engine. And of course if it was in Canada or one of the exports etc.

Any leads one what else we should be looking for (I know look for a life.) to help us better understand when Ford of Canada transitioned to the starter equipped LHD and RHD cars, it would be greatly appreciated.

Additional details:

Several of us have been discussing when Ford of Canada first started exporting Model T Fords with both Right Hand Drive and equipped with a starter to Australia, New Zealand and other British Commonwealth Countries (see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/812803.html?1512380307 ). And a related question -- were any Left Hand Drive Canadian assemble cars with starters shipped to Australia, New Zealand and other British Common Wealth Countries before Ford of Canada developed a belt driven generator that allowed the Right Hand Drive control? If you have any information on that please post it on the other thread. Please just click on: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/812803.html?1512380307 and add it there.

A very helpful piece of knowledge would be to know when Ford of Canada began offering Model Ts in LHD with starters. We have very good documentation for USA produced cars. Bruce at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1919.htm has: MODEL YEAR DATES: January 1919 to August 1919.

And

MAJOR MODEL YEAR FEATURES: Note: Starter was an option on the open cars at $75. (Weight 95 lbs.) Demountable rims were an additional $25. (Weight 55 lbs.) The 1919 model year began in January 1919 with the introduction of the electrical equipment as standard in the closed cars. Until this time, there was little change in style since the 1917 models, due to the war effort.

And there is a wealth of documentation supporting that:
http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc18.htm
DEC 11, 1918 Ford Archives
First starter-type engine made, #2,815,891.

DEC 21, 1918 Acc. 78, Ford Archives
Announcement of starters for closed cars on or about January 15, 1919, at $75.

DEC 24, 1918 Acc. 575, Box 11, #718, Ford Archives
Bendix cover flange, T-1767; cap, T-1762; and shell, T-1766, replaced the one-piece design. The assembly part number was T-1763. (The one-piece design was reinstated April 17, 1919, (Acc. 575, Box 11, #727).)


http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc18.htm there is a wealth of information on USA production:
JAN 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, Ford Archives
T-8793 starter switch plunger for coupe only.
T-8794 starter switch plunger for sedan.

JAN 25, 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #719, Ford Archives
Bendix cover zinc plated. T-7994 rear fender bracket (to running board) made from scrap of clutch disks instead of 20 ga. steel.

JAN 31, 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #720, Ford Archives
T-8793 and T-8794 starter switch plungers obsoleted.

FEB 12, 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #725, Ford Archives
T-7675A ignition switch on first 200 cars.
T-7675B ignition switch on next 2000 cars.
T-7675C ignition switch on next 3000 cars.
T-7675D ignition switch after first 5200 cars.

FEB 21, 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #724, Ford Archives
T-701C starter-type flywheel used on all cars

MAR 15, 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #726, Ford Archives
Starter-type transmission cover used on all cars

MAR 21, 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #726, Ford Archives
T-1773 timing gear cover plate, T-1761 transmission cover plate, made from two pieces from center of clutch plate stock spot welded together. T-1758 transmission cover front plate made from two pieces 20 ga. fender stock, spot welded together. (These are the cover plates used to blank the holes when there is no starter or generator.)

APR 18, 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #729, Ford Archives
T-400D (starter type) cylinder specified for all cars.

MAY 28, 1919 Engine production records, Ford Archives
Last non-starter engine block made on this date.

JUN 5, 1919 Acc. 78, #436, Ford Archives
All cars to have starter-type engines; trucks to get whatever non-starter engines are left.
Valve cover plates now to be held in place with a screw instead of a stud and nut.
But what about the Ford of Canada production? When did they introduce the starter and when did they introduce the new style block that would accept the gear driven generator? The

Bruce on pages 539 to 546 has a list of Canadian serial number engine blocks. But he did not specify in the listing which were the pre-gear driven generator blocks and which ones had the later casting that allowed a generator to be fitted. If anyone happens to have that information please let us know. Clearly a 1917 and earlier block was non-generator and a 1922 and later was a generator block. But when did it change? How long was the over lap (it was Dec 11, 1918 to May 28, 1919 for USA engine production).

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark herdman on Monday, December 04, 2017 - 10:49 pm:

Hap

I have been through my records and have made this list up. Just and only just by this list, there appears to be an early lot of cylinder castings made for Generators in late 1919 and again in later 1920.

This is all Australian data except for the one marked "Canada". I put that one in in case someone knows this person and may be, if he still owns the car, may find/provide data on this original car.

Looking at the hole picture 1920-21 in Australia, there is very little data for engines that would have arrived here in early 1921, suggesting there were not a lot of imports at that time

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, December 05, 2017 - 08:30 pm:

Mark,

Thank you so much! I've been fighting some flu/allergy stuff. And at work we are in crunch period (every work usually has a time when it is really busy. Her in the USA the folks that prepare income taxes are really busy April & May etc.

Does anyone have a Canadian serial number block that is a lower number and earlier casting date that also is the style a gear driven generator could easily be mounted to?

Again thank you so much!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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