New 12v Starter

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: New 12v Starter
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 12:34 pm:

Some of you may want to know that there is a new 12v starter on the market. I just bought one from Snyder's. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/12-volt-starter

I spoke to Snyder's and the gear comes out when engaged. The bendix is internal so the gear is not turning all the time.

If you are a DIE HARD 6V person, please disregard this post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 01:16 pm:

Interesting re-fit of a modern starter.

Read the instruction on the webpage, but didn't state if the Bendix cover should remain in place on the hogshead.

Would guess the gear extended when running would need that space too.

(Message edited by Dan_Treace on December 06, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 01:19 pm:

It's an abomination...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 01:22 pm:

Since the gear engages from front-to-rear, as opposed to the original way, I'd be concerned about having to flip the ring gear over to get the tooth lead on the correct side. Yes, I see the starter gear has a lead, but so does the original T Bendix gear and the ring gear still requires the lead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 01:24 pm:

Come to think of it, just flipping the gear over may still not do it, depends what side of the tooth will have the lead...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower - Portland, Oregon on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 01:29 pm:

Sheesh! I could buy a lot of 2-0 battery cable for that price, which is all a 6V Model T starter needs to operate properly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 01:41 pm:

Ron Patterson has these and they work great.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 02:39 pm:

My understanding is the bendix gear comes out when it is disengaged. If that is the case, then the drive gear on the starter in the photo is installed backwards!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 04:08 pm:

Adam,

Rod states, "...the gear comes out when engaged."

I think the gear engages from front-to-back, so I think the orientation is correct, but I believe the gear tooth leads are on the wrong side of the teeth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 07:03 pm:

Seriously? Just converting a regular Model T starter to 12 volt isn't difficult to do. And I'm pretty sure its considerably cheaper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 - 11:25 pm:

I am using a 12 Volt gear reduction starter in my model A and it works great. It is similar to Rod's.
Got tired of having to push the car each time the Bendix spring broke. The battery in a model A is located close to the starter. The battery cables are short in length.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 09:29 am:

Jerry, I think you are right. I was assuming it would have to engage from the back because of the taper on the flywheel ring gear teeth. AND because of the loading on the aluminum nose cone. I wonder if this is properly engineered to engage the un-tapered side of the ring gear teeth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 01:37 pm:

Adam,

I don't think it can be properly engineered to engage with the back side of the ring gear. I believe both gears need the lead on the teeth. Furthermore, it looks like the bendix gear shown, has the lead on the wrong side of the teeth, (meaning on the "coast side" of the teeth), given it's rotation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 08:39 pm:

The original starter will work just fine on 12 volts. You just need to replace one of your 6 volt cables with a 12 volt style cable, 6 ft. or so long. I learned this from Royce Peterson's father.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 10:02 pm:

At last .!!!! something to take the heat off my beloved Marvel Mystery Oil . ... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 10:18 pm:

It almost looks like the starter on my Kubota tractor which i had to change the solenoid contacts on a while back. I can't remember the company that makes the starter but it is also similar to a Dodge starter,so full circle for the Model T ,back to using DOdge parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt the Headlight Lens Guy n California on Thursday, December 07, 2017 - 11:21 pm:

Thanks for posting this. I am in market to find a new starter for my travel system. But I donít want to pay $400. A six ft 2/0 cable is .5 ohms by my calculations. I guess that must match the starter creating a voltage divider.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil McKay on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 03:59 am:

This starter was mentioned in a thread on the forum a year or two ago.

The starter is English. See http://www.wosperformance.co.uk/media/uploads/files/2/wosp-web-brochure.pdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 07:59 am:

I have been manufacturing and selling to this modern 12 vt. starter conversion for some time in Australia .
Will fit LHD cars but never sold one to have ant feed back on same
.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 08:30 am:

In all seriousness, why would anyone spend that kind of money and go through all the trouble of using something that is not needed?

I would understand if there was a shortage of T starters or if an alternative was way cheaper but this is not the case. It's not a question of a bad design either because the OE unit works perfectly.

I'm no T engine mod expert but I don't think there is a T engine out there with a high enough compression ration that would require a gear reduction starter.

Is the interest in parts like these just a curiosity or is it a general dislike for perfectly working OE parts?

The reason I ask is that I believe that parts like these can give experienced folks and potential newcomers the false impression that Model Ts are not usable as originally built.

I'm not trying to stir the pot on this one- just curious.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 04:32 pm:

If you use a 12 volt battery on a 6volt ''T'' starter you will adventually find out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 04:39 pm:

I would never use a 12 volt battery on a 6 volt starter- it's not necessary because my T engines are not modified.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 06:54 pm:

It's good to know a 12V starter exists for those that have switched over for some reason.


That said, My 6V starter with a 6V battery and GOOD CABLES AND GROUNDS turns over perfectly; there is absolutely no reason for anything else. And since it's a regular ol' T starter I can easily get parts for it.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Erfert on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 07:04 pm:

My generator appears to have been modified to put out 14 volts and I have a 12 volt battery. Starter is 6V and when I bought the '25 it came with a extra bendix spring. Haven't had to use the spring as I crank start it and the 12V is only used for the lights front and back, coils are OK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 07:11 pm:

Have good luck with a 6 volt starter with clean connections and a good ground. Works fine. Also have good luck with a stock T starter on my Fronty speedster running a 12 volt battery. Yes, either will abuse a spring if I forget to retard the timing. I've twisted a few springs over the last 20+ years, replaced bushings once (maybe even twice) but feel that the basic starters have held up well considering what I've asked of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 07:32 pm:

Richard

the only thing it takes to make a T generator go from 6VDC to 12VDC is changing the cutout on top. There are no modifications...just so you know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 08:39 am:

I installed the new WOSP 12 volt starter this morning. The package came with a small jumper to connect the starter post to the solenoid. It does not sound like an original starter, but that is OK because it works GREAT!



I could have repaired my old starter. The Bendix was good but it appears that one of the bolts holding the field coils had fallen out and jammed the rotor.



Regarding the $439.95 HIGH PRICE of the new WOSP starter, I can only comment that a quality rebuilt starter costs $375.95 plus a $75 core charge. The WOSP is actually less expensive than a quality rebuilt starter.

Langs Rebuilt https://www.modeltford.com/item/5099RB.aspx
Snyder's New http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/12-volt-starter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 09:51 am:

so, if no one sends in a core to get their $75 bucks back, the 12V starter is cheaper. Pretty tortured logic, friend, but whatever you need to justify the expenditure, it's your money and it's your car.

You're slowly losing the T experience with your upgrades, but again, it's your car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Perry Kete on Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 09:55 am:

I believe Rod owns several T's a '09 -'10-'13- '24 so I think he has the T experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 10:25 am:

Mr. Bird

that is nice to know. That doesn't change the fact that the 12v T with a Mitsubishi-ish starter is still losing the T experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor - Kenilworth, NJ on Saturday, December 09, 2017 - 10:51 am:

There aren't any permanent modifications made to the car so anyone at anytime can easily restore the full T experience.

But like Gary says; My 6V starter with a (properly maintained) 6V battery and GOOD CABLES AND GROUNDS turns over perfectly.

My car goes on frequent short runs with multiple stops that will drain the 6V battery enough that that the generator re-charging is not sufficient to properly maintain the battery. A couple of weeks of that type of driving without using a battery tender or weekly charge does result in Slow cranking and hard starting. Recharge the battery and all is well again. JMHE, your mileage may vary, past performance is no guarantee of future results... :-)


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