Fixing my starter

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Fixing my starter
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 08:33 am:


I got my parts from Lang's. Now I'm ready to fix my starter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 08:41 am:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCRdm6YiinM&list=PLYG_lIhIwKyKWUvUQjcLS8t3UuSb0V 5ID&index=2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 09:21 am:

Anybody remember the episode of the Andy Griffith show where Aunt Bea got drunk and had a big time playing the piano and singing Mike Benders song?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 10:00 am:

There's a number of factual and procedural errors in that video and they show up in the end result test. I seriously doubt THAT starter would start a car. A properly rebuilt starter would jump off that table and/or spin up to a whine in milliseconds. That video was painful to watch. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 01:02 pm:

Stephen:
Pls elaborate, or send me a pm to explain what is wrong here. I will be rebuilding two starters this winter and was going to follow this video and the MTFCA electrical system book to guide the process. Was hoping to do this rebuild once and have serviceable starters when finished. Thanks, jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 01:24 pm:

Just wondering how many people out there cut their own paper gaskets. I have a set of nesting cork bores for cutting the holes and the gasket material in cork or cardstock is sold at most auto stores.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 01:29 pm:

Starter will not jump off the table when tested with a 2 amp charger.
Sorry it was painful to watch.
Starts my engine just fine with 8.5 to 1 compression.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 01:43 pm:

I usually cut my own but decided to splurge this time. I use ferrules , for compression fittings to cut the holes. I might use the new gaskets for patterns and cut some out of cork/rubber material.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 03:25 pm:

Here is what I test my rebuilt starters on. The same thing Ford dealers used.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Howell on Friday, December 08, 2017 - 10:17 pm:

Stephen, sorry for your pain.
Please bring your rebuild starter to my car barn and we will shot you doing a your version of the starter rebuild. Plan on spending 3 days in Arkansas while we shoot and edit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Davis on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 01:00 pm:

I thought the video was very good, and every part of the restoration process was fully explained, I did not find it painful at all to watch, I can see that some T guys may have a different way of rebuilding a starter, and some of His techniques may be different from theirs, But He seemed to cover all the bases best I could tell, and there may be a reason for testing the starter with a limited power source, to keep from over revving a un loaded 100 year old starter motor ? My thanks to all involved, in this production, shooting, editing, along with background music,accelerated video of some of the steps, and much more, was a lot of work and while many folks can do the work not that many can clearly explain every aspect of the restoration while they are doing it, and I am sure this video didn't make much money at the box office, and was a labor of love.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 01:46 pm:

I'll add an extra step that I take when rebuilding the front cover. Once the babbitt is bored, and the bronze bushing sized, I put the housing on a mandrel and take a skim cut off the flange face, both sides, to guarantee that the flange is perpendicular to the centerline of the bores. I have never found a flange that was still flat, (the four corners tend to get "dog eared", especially if dropped over the last 90 years or so), or nicely perpendicular.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 01:58 pm:

Mark: I cut my own gaskets but for the bolt holes I use spent shell casings with the primer removed. the edges are sharp enough for this task and to make Steve J happy they are free I pick up a handful whenever I go to the range I use .177 .223 .38 or .357 mag .45 and .50 this gives me a range of bolt hole sizes. Anything smaller than .177 I just use a leather punch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 02:05 pm:

Hey George, Great idea to use the shell casings. When I did shoot it was muzzle loaders so that doesn't help me. I had the set of brass cork bores for other projects so use them for gaskets. The trick is to back the gasket material with a piece of belt leather for a clean cut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 02:20 am:

Nonsense. I run (ran) my rebuilt starters up so I know they wouldn't come apart in somebody's car. This also runs in the brushes and I can check for brush bounce. They'll turn 5,000+ rpm on 6v. And as I mentioned before, they'll get there in milliseconds. I test them for rpm, locked rotor torque, locked rotor current and unloaded current draw. The Ford spec on that is something like 70A. That's not valid for a modern rebuilt starter. You've got a problem somewhere if it draws 70A. Typically, it's a bearing alignment problem. But hey, if it makes some effort to turn on 2v, it must be good enough.

I've never seen any of the starters with 1/4" pole shoe screws as claimed in the video. Or the "corrected" claim of 5/16" screws either.

Then the builder said he was using a bronze bushing in place of the babbitt in brush cover then changed to a roller bearing. Good move but made the video longer. He just failed to mention why.

I cringed watching a precision clearance measurement of .0015" using dial calipers on the ID of the babbitt. The builder was lucky to be within .010" with that method. I didn't see him check the fit of a Bendix either. But it must be okay.

And watching the armature shaft being beaten to straighten had me in stiches. I bet that took a while. But I guess if you're a hammer and chisel mechanic, that's how it's done.

And, there's no need to take a hacksaw blade to the commutator. That job got passed off to Mike so he couldn't take the blame, I guess. :-)

And why would you take a starter down that far and not rebuild the brush plate with modern insulators. Or test the brush springs. Oh, I forgot--It was just a "restoration" not a rebuild. I guess the poor performance was restored.

He should have spent time on reaming the bushing instead of just showing the tool. I don't know if it was reamed or not. And nothing was said about NOT drilling the oil hole or turning the old bushing if you're reusing it.

I'm pretty sure there are more but, as stated, it was hard to watch with coffee spewing out of my nose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A Bartsch on Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 10:46 am:

Thanks, Stephen: I was expecting words of concern regarding the use of soft solder on the battery terminal stud. In spite of perceived shortcomings I have learned a lot from Mike's videos. And they always state 'this is one way to do this job', which to me implies their honesty. Thanks for the videos, and thanks for the constructive commentary from others. jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 11:04 am:

Soldering skills need work. A lot of work. Not impressed with the whole pos stud connecting business.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Wednesday, December 13, 2017 - 01:23 pm:

Stephen,

"...it was hard to watch with coffee spewing out of my nose."

It's hard to do much of anything with coffee spewing out of your nose. (But, apparently, it's still easy to be a condescending know-it-all with coffee spewing out of your nose.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Howell on Thursday, December 14, 2017 - 10:12 pm:

Stephen,

The offer is still open.. but you will need 4-5 days to shoot your rebuild process.

Please give some thought to adding your expertise and knowledge to our ModelT-Tips library of videos.

To Others, thank you for your support. And thanks to Jim Davis for recognizing the time Stephen will need to spend to get his techniques properly documented.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, December 15, 2017 - 01:45 am:

If you don't like how they did that starter in the video you'd really hate how I did mine!
I don't exactly have many tools or parts so I had to build up the worn teeth on the bendix with weld.
Had to pour the babbitt with the bendix in place so it'd be somewhere near the right location & size.
And the field windings had to be repaired & soldered ect ect.. in place because there is no way those screws are coming out. Ever.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Friday, December 15, 2017 - 12:10 pm:

Perhaps the effort is worthy of mention. Sort of like a "participation trophy". And that's what has become the norm in this hobby. I'm just not the type to jump on the wagon of misinformation and praise those that take the short stroke. No one cares to do it right any more. They only care that it works and works right now. It doesn't matter how well it works of if it works tomorrow. All my starters and generators carry a lifetime limited warrantee. It covers everything but the brushes. Ask about THAT from the vendors.

And Bill, you know that's a silly offer--Knowing I couldn't possibly haul my tools and equipment up there. Besides, I've retired due to health problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, December 15, 2017 - 11:09 pm:

Really? Uh-huh... so am I supposed to pull new parts out of thin air or something? And a whole machine shop, in a country that doesn't even have proper lathes anymore. Yeah.. like that'll happen.


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