OT? - Welding a cast iron block

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: OT? - Welding a cast iron block
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Monday, December 11, 2017 - 02:13 pm:

Having observed previous Forum discussions, here's a thought about bringing some of today's technology into the picture. Hope it helps someone.

http://www.powernationtv.com/two-minute-tech/2min-410/how-to-repair-a-broken-eng ine-block

Meanwhile....
Take Care; Behave; "Don't Shoot!" (and)
"Happy T-ing!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Monday, December 11, 2017 - 02:54 pm:

Quite a Joke. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, December 11, 2017 - 04:49 pm:

If it's a joke it might be on you? Please tell with the job pictured what was wrong? Once when pushing several ash trees at once a tree whipped back and broke the 5 inch outlet from the exhaust manifold on my large bulldozer and with nickle rod i welded it the same way. When a chimney fell and broke the exhaust manifold on the other side in 11 pics i had a retired welder weld the same way same nickle rod.With 11 pics there was one or two we never found but he stick welded it!! The two welded manifolds were still doing the job when the dozer was sold years later!! Please tell us your joke?? My joke is a one armed man was sitting one table over in the coffiee shop and said he proably had a manifold for it. He asked was it a Detroit Engine a 4-71 no a 6-71 no a 8-71 no,it's a 12-71!! He asked right or left and i said right.After about a week he gave me what i had broken and i gave him 50 dollars for it.I never had to use it as the welding held so i made sure it went with the dozer when it sold!! Please tell us about your joke? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Monday, December 11, 2017 - 07:09 pm:

Kenny did you see him preheat the block?
Welding cast iron is not the problem. Any body with ni-rod can do the job. But right along the weld it now has stress. Steel has some give to it. Cast iron does not. Thats why it snaps off. As the weld cools it shrinks. The main part has no give to it. So you need to preheat to a red color so everything will shrink at the same rate. And then the good welders put the part in lime or ash I think for a few days so it can cool slowly. The guy in the video needs lessons on welding. Go to a good shop and ask if you should preheat your part. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, December 11, 2017 - 07:34 pm:

The best weld is the one that does the job the cheapest!! Preheat is good but not always neccessary as all cast is not the same! The fellow in the video fixed the part to suit his needs as did i. I can't think of anything more stressful than holding up 75 pound mufflers on bulldozer year in year out.I do not need to go ask,i have welded for well over 50 years!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Monday, December 11, 2017 - 07:48 pm:

Pre-heating is good, but not 100% necessary every time.
Stitch welding short sections with nickle rod and peening the weld as it cools will relieve the stress and lessen the chance of cracking or separation.

And the purer the iron, the better the welding will be!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, December 11, 2017 - 07:48 pm:

I am a ticketed welder for more than 40+ years, although I've had limited call for cast iron welding I have done it cold with stainless steel welding rods.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, December 11, 2017 - 08:36 pm:

I have welded many cast iron parts over the years and never had a problem. The main thing wrong with the way that they did that was that they didn't V out the parts anywhere near enough. I V them out so i can get as near to %100 penetration as I can. I leave at least a couple of undisturbed areas for reference points for alignment. If possible, I gouge out the area with gouging rod, which helps burn out any impureties and helps preheat the area a bit. Then peen/chip and wire brush the area and then weld in short passes less than an inch long, chipping and peening a lot. I try to never to get the area so hot that you can't put your bare hand on it after peening, not hold it there, just feel it quickly. I move around in different places to keep the heat and stress down, peen, take my time, peen, don't get in a hurry. Did I mention peen? Very important to relieve stress. All that being said, there are MANY differences in nickel based rod, some being very expensive, but the difference between them is dramatic. Some being designed specificly for welding dirty, oil soaked castings. Has always worked for me. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 12:01 am:

Well guys why dont you tell Tony Bowker what a fool he is for spending over 1,000 dollars having his 1909 block repaired with the locknstich method. He should have found a kid down the street with a peening hammer and saved a ton of money. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 12:38 am:

They didn't fully explain the process. I have used this method numerous times over the years. It does require more of a bevel than they showed. I also would weld a little, lean and then let it sit. This method is best for a low stress area as shown on the video. It will not work on the top of your cracked low head because the nickel doesn't move the same as the cast iron.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 12:50 am:

Scott, I don't know if you are referring to me as "the kid down the block" with a peening hammer, but I assure you, I'm no kid. I never said anything about repairing a block like Tony's, that's a whole other animal. I was referring to the video. Rest assured, I have repaired many cast iron parts, including some blocks, that didn't need to be repaired with the Locknstitch method, or were out in the boonies where welding was the only option. I was just pointing out welding can and is done successfully. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 12:55 am:

Frank is correct. That is pretty much exactly what I learned to do by reading, listening to those that knew more than me, and experimenting. I learned over fifty years ago if a particular procedure wasn't working, try something else. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard E Moore Jr. Pickwick lake Tenn. on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 07:43 am:

I had a crack in a t block and it had an old time patch put on it with square headed bolts and looked prototype cool. It was broken at the front of the motor at both sides of the water jacket. The block numbers matched the title and I couldn’t bring myself to toss it. I took the block to my engine builder to bore and deck. When it came back there was no crack visable but the patch was still there. Loved that. He called it spray welding. He said he can repair the crack on the 26-27 blocks in the lifter cavity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 08:43 am:

We all pay our own bills and debts.I know nothing of said crack on the 1909 block and with that value i think i would get a pro.All cast is not the same,all repairs are not the same,and our skill level is not the same.The man in the video got the results he wanted at the cost he wanted so why do you have a problem? Are you a Journeyman Welder?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 10:33 am:

I guess Ill also weigh in on this. My credentials are 31 years as a construction Boilermaker welder with thousands of hours under the hood doing high pressure welds on all forms of metals (cast included) in steel mills, paper mills, chemical plants, refineries, and Nuclear power plants. ect ect ect... The only real issue I had was the lack of bevel to the weld zone as mentioned above. There should have been a little more detail to the steps in the video, but probably a "time restraint" problem as to video length. In this situation, what they did was sufficient. One thing not mentioned is that this was a "ear" that was completely broken off. That creates a crack to weld that is continuous. This makes the stress be able to expand and contract in a uniform way. A continuous crack of a broken off piece is the easiest and best case situation to weld in cast iron. Cracks that have a start and stop that is enclosed in a piece of cast metal such as a crack in a water jacket of a engine block are harder to weld and need special attention to how the stress will act. As mentioned above, pre heating is not always needed. On larger parts it can actually hurt if not properly done. Every single weld made is a "different animal" that needs a different technique or approach to the problems of that particular weld. Just my 2 cents worth and probably "over valued" have fun and be safe ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 11:02 am:

We had a 58 Ford with a 352 v-8 in it that threw a rod and knocked a hole in the side of the block. We were going to welding school after we got out of high school and learning different types of welding processes and how to use them.

We asked about repairing the hole in the lower side or the block and one of the instructors said we could do it without pulling the engine. That weekend we pulled off the pan and found that the rod cap had come loose and caused the damage. Everything else was still OK so we put a new insert and cap on and reinstalled the pan.

Our instructor informed us that the outside patch on the block could be done using a piece of 1/4 flat of steel and welding it on with a 7018 rod. Sure enough it worked and the car was driven for a few more years till it was sold.

No that wasn't the "best" way to do it but it did work. Our instructor was a maintenance welder for many years and told us over the years he found there is no one way to repairing cast iron. Each situation is a little different.

Others will most certainly have a different opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 - 11:40 am:

Cast ingot rod and a torch can do wonders,I have had it done to different pieces over the years myself by more experianced welders than myself,but when the need arises,I have some rod and flux ready.
Alot of it is related to the job the metal is doing. A T block with a corner welded in has the oilpan to hold it in place to a point.
If you ever go to the Henry Ford Museum and look at the first Ford tractor you will see a nice patch on the side of it's block,no welding involved. Same idea gets used today.


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