‘23 T hood shelf

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: ‘23 T hood shelf
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Woods on Tuesday, December 19, 2017 - 08:37 pm:

I am restoring a late model ‘23 with high radiator and came across an issue after the parts were painted. At the time I painted them I did not realize I actually was shipped a wide and a narrow shelf. See 1st photo. So it appears that I need the wide to cover the cowl see 2nd photo.Wide and narrow
Wide
So the issue is the new aprons only have a hole that lines up with the narrow. So I marked the location the new hole would go to allow the hook clamp spring to fit see 3rd photo New hole

So has anyone had this experience that a new hole must be drilled for the wide? The narrow shelf aligns perfect but will not be out far enough to see narrow shelf photo 4Narrow New holeNarrow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, December 19, 2017 - 09:48 pm:

A "late model ‘23 with high radiator" is a '24. But that shouldn't make any difference in the hood shelves, which are supposed to be the same for 23-25. You didn't say whether the car is a touring, sedan, hack, etc. They take different splash aprons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, December 19, 2017 - 11:59 pm:

Sorry Steve J, but I must disagree on one point. All low (black era) radiator Ts should use the "narrow" shelf from '17 through '23 model year. Whatever one chooses to call a "late '23" with a high radiator (and therefore wider firewall), it will require the wider hood shelf. It is the firewall's width (and therefore radiator's height) that determines which style hood shelf is needed to fit properly. I do agree with you that the year model should be determined by the style (height and width of firewall along with the other features that went along with those changes) of the car, not the month of production. I have read that the '24 coupe began production in June of '23, but it is still really a '24 model, just an early issue. Most automakers sometimes do the same thing still.
You are quite correct that the body style may require a different splash shield to be correct. Although a standard roadster/touring car splash shield will work under the enclosed body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 03:08 am:

David, many of the panels on our Canadian sourced cars had both holes drilled, perhaps to reduce spare parts inventories. Your second hole as marked is spot on. The holes for narrow shelves will be covered by the wider shelf.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Woods on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 06:43 am:

Sorry I did forget to mention this is a touring car. As far as I know all the vendors only offer one type of splash apron from r all touring ‘17-25.

Thank you


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 08:58 am:

My '25 Canadian cut off touring also has two holes in the apron as Allan mentioned.

Unless it's really going to bother you, I would just drill the second holes and forget about it if your using the wide hood shelves. You won't see the inner holes a whole lot once mounted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 09:51 am:

It's not the holes I would be worried about, it's the fact that the two do not match in size or shape. The left and right should be mirror images of each other, your are not. You are trying to mix years, the top one is 1917 to early 23 the bottom one is late 23 (24) to 25. I know you understand that part but I would get it straightened out before drilling holes, it's going to look odd and you may not be happy in the end anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 10:31 am:

For the years of shelves I was going by the Lang's catalogue. Apparently that's not necessarily an accurate reference. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 10:38 am:

OT here but those splash shields appear to be "sedan" with the squared edge - not that it makes a difference in mounting the hood shelves but not correct for a "touring". Or maybe it's the shiney paint reflection ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 01:57 pm:

Mine has both holes drilled (well, stamped it appears) from factory.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 03:44 pm:

For whatever it is worth, I have seen both original and reproduction splash shields with either inner only holes, or outer only holes, also and both holes. Certainly, the inner only would be natural for any shield manufactured into early '23. I would imagine that the outer only holed shields were factory install mid '23 calendar through '25 model year. I can only speculate that the original era ones with two holes may have been replacement stock from the era, or possibly crossover production during '23 or early '24. Ford would have known the change in placement of the hood hook was in the drawing stages, and it would have been cheaper to double punch than to keep track of the different styles and what style car they were being put under. Again, that is pure speculation.
Reproduction shields is anybody's guess (Tom R?).

Back to the different shields for enclosed bodies thing. I know (basically for certain), that some coupes and many sedans from 1923 onward used different splash shields than the roadsters and touring cars did. I also know this subject was extensively discussed for many years at club meetings. And, a lot of empirical evidence does (did?) indicate that not all sedans and coupes got the different splash shields. In simple other words, a lot of unrestored coupes and sedans were known to have the roadster/touring type shields. Was it a simple timeline thing? Was it mostly earlier coupes and sedans that had the R?T shields? I do NOT know when they began using different shields on the enclosed cars. I don't know if it was both coupes and sedans at the same time? Or maybe one followed the other? Maybe part of the problem was body swapping? Certainly shields were replaced occasionally over the years and wrong ones could have been used?
The sedan/coupe shields do not reach quite as far under the body because the sedan and coupe bodies are wider at the bottom. I have seen a touting car with sedan/coupe shields on it, showing the gap along the bottom of the body. It didn't work very well, but the car was a mess in other ways also.

And ALL that, doesn't even have much to do with the "other" different sedan splash shield issue. Somewhere along the line, Ford decided to use a more (then currently) stylish squared off splash shield on the sedans. It probably was part of the plan to update the cars for 1926. But at some time before '26 production really began, sometime during '25 model year, Ford began putting the squared off splash shields under at least some of the fordor sedans, and maybe some tudor sedans (haven't seen any proof of that one myself). I have not personally seen any evidence that these were put under the '25 coupes by the factory. Empirical evidence (unrestored survivors) have shown quite a few late '25 fordor sedans with the squared off splash shields. Unfortunately, written record available for many years did not indicate this, and most late '25 sedans that did have the squared off shields when restored decades ago, were changed to the earlier style. Enough original era photographic record has since been found to confirm that those cars with the later style shields were not just some error or anomaly.

An also for whatever it is worth. The center-door sedans I think all had the standard touring car type shields correct for whatever their year ('23 or earlier NOT COUNTING the true '15, it was different). But I could be wrong about some or all of that? I would like to hear about it if I am.

Who wold have thought, that a simple sheet of steel who's whole purpose was to keep some mud off the running boards and the side of the body, could require so much discussion and debate?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - 05:05 pm:

I had an "original" 1925 Tudor with the square shields - my wife had an "original" 1925 Coupe with the full skirt fenders and it had the "rounded", open car type of shields.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Woods on Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 11:41 am:

Thanks for all the feedback looks like I will be drilling a new hole. One more question now that I know I need the wide shelf. The wood blocks don’t seem to align correctly does anyone has a photo of the two blocks and how they are installed?

Thanks and Happy Holidays.
David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Thursday, December 21, 2017 - 08:56 pm:

David, you need the correct blocks for the wide or narrow shelves. Do you know which blocks you have?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Friday, December 22, 2017 - 02:05 am:

I just made my blocks for my '23 Touring. If you would like, I can measure then in the next day or so.

Paul in Tacoma


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Woods on Friday, December 22, 2017 - 07:22 am:

I checked the suppliers and it looks like I have the correct blocks. Now that I know I need to make another hole I believe I figured out the correct orientation of the blocks to fit the wide shelf. I attached a photo with the different type blocks the ones I have match the ‘23-‘25.

Thanks!


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